Neyartha on a Monday morning!!! Really 'Deep-rooted' as Koteswara Rao has remarked at the Orkut Group. Not sure of 2D. (Addendum - Annotation for 2D added)
ACROSS
1 - Edible root given by fire fighter to revolutionary for dangerous stunt (5,8) - WATER {CHE}{STNUT*}
9 - Boy reported to be idle in the solarium (3,6) - (~son){SUN} {LOUNGE}
10 - Imperial decree from Britain to force out church dog (5) - {UK}(~ch){ASE}
11 - Sue RIAA for a change? Turkey and Russia are a part of this! (7) - EURASIA*
13 - Strike back with a discount for the edible root (7) - PAR<-{SNIP}
14 - Sweet party in call centre (5) - {DO}{LCE}
15 - Vacation necessity at work (4,5) - TAKE LEAVE [CD]
17 - Present voucher to private newspaper representative (4,5) - GIFT TOKEN Connection to pvt newspaper rep eludes me (Addendum - {GI}{FT} TOKEN - Thanks to Chatirvasi, see his comments below)
18 - Cutting tools returned outside hydrogen plant (5) - S{H}RUB <- )
20 - A group of traditionalists design nose rings for the jailbird (7) - NEO{CON}S
22 - Accountant catches fool in Virginia retreat with edible root (7) - C{ASS}A{VA}
23 - Minor actor in Connecticut excluded from selection (5) - EX(-ce)TRA (Correction - EXTRA(-ct))
24 - British lass’s clumsy body drill (5,4) - DOLLY BIRD*
26 - Considers corruption in the test’s admission when grilled, say (5-8) - CROSS {EXAM}INED*
DOWN
1 - Marry the gun captured in London’s entertainment district (4,3) - WE{ST EN}D
2 - Put up iambi partitioned incorrectly (oddly lacking a musical note) (5,4) - TE{N}{O}{R} {C}{L}EF <- ) [CD]
3 - Line spoken by Greek character (3) - RHO(~row)
4 - Dye obtained by substituting sulphur with hydrogen in medicinal herb (5) - (-s+h)HENNA
5 - A diploma for the rams, lambs and ewes? (9) - SHEEPS{KIN}
6 - Bizarre ritual in the homes of the Swiss and the Costa Ricans, say (11) - NE{UTRALI*}STS
7 - Track runner to get fit (5) - TRAIN [DD]
8 - Model left at religious centre (6) - TEMPL(-at)E
12 - Cook pate stew too with edible root (5,6) - SWEET POTATO*
15 - Select teams choose one side of the argument (4,5) - TAKE SIDES [DD]
16 - A person with multi-continental roots gets injured on a safari (4-5) - AFRO-ASIAN*
17 - Cheerful greeting for alien leaving with edible root (6) - GINGER(-et)*
19 - Barbate Oriental in Germany, a spiritless revolutionary (7) - B{E}ARDED Anno pending
21 - Nerve of a visionary? (5) - OPTIC [CD]
22 - Clay model has a spot marked for the flower part (5) - CALY*{X}
25 - Many Americans smuggle this edible root (3) - YAM [T]
Present voucher to private newspaper representative
ReplyDeleteprivate = soldier - GI
newspaper - FT ( a component which Gridman used in a recent clue and was rapped for not being desi)
representative - token
@Chaturvasi
ReplyDeleteI took Present as Gift and voucher as token, that's how I got confused with the second half of the clue
Is the partitioning in SHEEPS{KIN} really necessary?
ReplyDelete*Isn't it a simple cryptic definiton?
** Does the word sheeps exist at all?
Oh yes... I understand.
ReplyDeleteThat's a clever red herring from Neyartha!
A diploma for the rams, lambs and ewes? (9)
ReplyDeleteThe three terms make you think of sheep's kin which they are.
'A diploma' is the def, as SHEEPSKIN is a parchment made from a sheep's skin.
19 - Barbate Oriental in Germany, a spiritless revolutionary (7) - B{E}ARDED Anno pending
ReplyDeleteI think it is:
Oriental = E
in = c/c indicator
Germany = DE
spiritless = DRAB
revolutionary = reversal indicator
Anno: E in the reverse of (DE DRAB) = {B{E}ARD ED}<-
...but if so, then I'm not comfortable with the 'a' in the clue.
Really like the clues for GIFT TOKEN and SHEEPSKIN.
ReplyDelete14 Sweet party in call centre (5) - {DO}{LCE}
ReplyDeleteSweet is the definition and party = DO, so far all right. But what indicates that the letters LCE are to be taken from 'call centre'? Or is there a better explanation for the clue?
I took 'lce' from call centre though they do not form the centre part of the two words, not a satisfactory annotation though if the answer is correct
ReplyDeleteAnno for (B{E}ARD ED)<- : The 'a' preceding 'spiritless' in the clue is a connector for surface reading. It is not uncommon practice to include miscellaneous words, as long as they don't destroy the cryptic reading / lead the solver astray. I feel the 'a' is justified enough not to classify this as an illegal clue.
ReplyDeleteAnno for DO LCE [T] : It is a charade + telescopic. The 'in' in the clue is not a connector, but a 'hidden / telescopic' indicator. We had a similar clue type (Charade + Telescopic) in 2 Dn of FT 13099 ( http://media.ft.com/cms/e1f7445a-45fd-11de-803f-00144feabdc0.gif )
Accountant catches fool in Virginia retreat with edible root (7) - C{ASS}A{VA}
ReplyDeleteC{ASS AV<-}A
Re DOLCE clue, there is no prob about it being a charade with a 'hidden' component, but just as the hidden clue has a hidden ind, the hidden component here too must have a hidden ind. This is my opinion - not to discourage experimentation by any clue writer.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Neyartha. It is great to be able to communicate directly with you.
ReplyDeleteBEARDED: 'a' does spoil the cryptic reading, not so far as to make it invalid but to cause some concern.
If the clue says "river = PO" or "a river = PO", the 'a' is all right here.
But if the clue says
"German a spiritless" = "DE DRAB",
then I don't think the "A" can be easily ignored.
Articles preceding nouns are okay, but have to be more carefully placed before adjectives/adverbs etc. Good clue otherwise, except for that.
DOLCE clue has all the elements needed for the charade + telescopic, but not in the correct order. The hidden component should be linked with the definition, here it's linked with 'party'.
The ACUMEN clue from FT that you have referred to is a fine example of charade + telescopic, with the components clued in order.
I must add, Neyartha, that I really appreciate your trying innovative techniques of clueing. The line between challenging and unfair is a tenuous one, and it is natural that when attempting something new, one crosses over (or is perceived as crossing over!) to the other. Araucaria whose crossword you linked to, as you'd know, is a classic example of a setter whose clues are both revered and hotly debated.
ReplyDeleteTrust that the feedback will be taken in a positive light. Thanks again for the effort and thought you put into your clue-writing.
@Shuchi,
ReplyDeleteI am not sure whether there is any rule indicating that the hidden component in a -Any clue type- + Telescopic clue must be linked with the direct definition. Do you happen to know of any resources online which shed further light on this topic?
Also, in the same FT puzzle that I linked to earlier ( http://media.ft.com/cms/e1f7445a-45fd-11de-803f-00144feabdc0.gif ), you will find 12 Ac where the telescopic fodder in the CC + telescopic clue has been placed farthest away from the direct definition.
It is simply the rule of language.
ReplyDeleteFT 12ac SI: Put some tinsel round the cradle => put INSE around CRIB
FT 2d SI: A bit of ecumenical => A + CUMEN
Both clues above clearly indicate how to reach the solution. But
THC9577 14a SI: Party in call centre = DO in ??:
It seems to say that 'party' is in 'call centre', not a part of the solution. 'in' can be a hidden indicator, but it isn't working out as one in this example.
"It seems to say that 'party' is in 'call centre',"
ReplyDeleteWell, that was the intended surface reading.
The cryptic reading is the one in which 'in' acts as the hidden indicator.
To further help 'cryptic reading', you can tag : 'letters' before 'in', just as it was done to explain the cryptic reading of an anagram clue (not mine) in one of your comments in a previous discussion thread.
We're going round in circles here :D I can't make it any clearer I'm afraid. One last try.
ReplyDeleteSweet party in XXX: The problem here is - even in the wordplay, the clue says that party, and not the solution, is in call center. If the clue was like:
Sweet party and some XXX
Sweet party, and a bit of XXX
A bit of XXX after party? Sweet!
Sweet from some XXX following party
those would be fine as charade + hidden word.
The way it stands now, it isn't - it doesn't logically lead to DO + LCE.
Trust this makes sense now. Maybe you could check with more setters/solvers about their views on this.