Welcome to Chennai. Incognito would have had a problem if he tried to set a clue for the new name of 'Central Station'
ACROSS
1 Endlessly clean that lady's male domestic animal in Chennai locality (12) WASHERMANPET {WASh}{HER}{MAN}{PET}
9 Dying writhing around university neighbourhood having snake park (6) GUINDY {G{U}INDY*}
10 By morning British captured upper class area near coach factory (8) PERAMBUR {PER}{AM}{B{U}R}
12 Bulb shaped roof on one ring shaped building: modern, without using rods at first (5,4) ONION DOME {ON}{1}{O}{MODErN*}
13 Disc jockey's pub spirit (5) DJINN {DJ}{INN}
14 Take the chair after the trade fair and explain (7) EXPOSIT {EXPO}{SIT}
16 Stop and expend money around the United States (7) SUSPEND {S{US}PEND}
18 Animals look and get up at first sunlight (7) LORISES {LO}{RISE}{Su...t}
20 Legendary flier's super gas compound has no Rhodium, as it was once known (7) PEGASUS {SUPEr+GAS}*
22 Eject the first supersonic pilot (5) CHUCK [DD]
24 Structures of flying machines can be made by melting a firearm with sulphur (9) AIRFRAMES {A+FIREARM*}{S}
26 Most hats can be designed for an apostle (2,6) ST THOMAS*
27 Mother, initially the uniquely red elderberry is ready to be eaten (6) MATURE {MA}{The}{Un...y}{Red}{El...y}
28 Land broker's spies chase a type of car (6,6) ESTATE AGENTS {AGENTS}<=>{ESTATE}
DOWN
2 Manipulated bail with one's proof that one wasn't there (5) ALIBI {BAIL}*{1}
3 Scholar is in the midst of robberies by people seeking pleasure (9) HEDONISTS {HE{DON}ISTS}
4 Idiot consumes gel with ecstasy to become everlasting (7) AGELESS {A{GEL}{E}SS}
5 Please help to make dress material (5) PLAID {PL}{AID}
6 Two containers one after another on eastern ship? That will lead to obesity (9) TUBBINESS {TUB}{BIN}{E}{SS}
7 Example: Remo built a railway station (6) EGMORE {EG}{REMO*}
8 Stretched one's neck! Red can's being crushed (6) CRANED*
11 In favour of the stronghold (4) FORT {FOR}{T}
15 Turn from good game after losing money (9) PIROUETTE {PI}{ROUlETTE}
17 Can US gear crush this? (5,4) SUGAR CANE* Semi&lit
18 Bordello customer's a pest (6) LOCUST [T]
19 A specialised soldier leads another soldier to get some joining material (7) SEALANT {SEAL}{ANT}
20 Leave one's vehicle temporarily in garden (4) PARK [DD]
21 This relative is sometimes a religious person; sometimes a medical assistant and sometimes both (6) SISTER [DD]
23 Whip knight away from home (5) KNOUT {KN}{OUT}
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25 Climb hill (5) MOUNT [DD]
GRID
1 Endlessly clean that lady's male domestic animal in Chennai locality (12) WASHERMANPET {WAS
9 Dying writhing around university neighbourhood having snake park (6) GUINDY {G{U}INDY*}
10 By morning British captured upper class area near coach factory (8) PERAMBUR {PER}{AM}{B{U}R}
12 Bulb shaped roof on one ring shaped building: modern, without using rods at first (5,4) ONION DOME {ON}{1}{O}{MODE
13 Disc jockey's pub spirit (5) DJINN {DJ}{INN}
14 Take the chair after the trade fair and explain (7) EXPOSIT {EXPO}{SIT}
16 Stop and expend money around the United States (7) SUSPEND {S{US}PEND}
18 Animals look and get up at first sunlight (7) LORISES {LO}{RISE}{S
24 Structures of flying machines can be made by melting a firearm with sulphur (9) AIRFRAMES {A+FIREARM*}{S}
26 Most hats can be designed for an apostle (2,6) ST THOMAS*
27 Mother, initially the uniquely red elderberry is ready to be eaten (6) MATURE {MA}{T
28 Land broker's spies chase a type of car (6,6) ESTATE AGENTS {AGENTS}<=>{ESTATE}
DOWN
2 Manipulated bail with one's proof that one wasn't there (5) ALIBI {BAIL}*{1}
3 Scholar is in the midst of robberies by people seeking pleasure (9) HEDONISTS {HE{DON}ISTS}
4 Idiot consumes gel with ecstasy to become everlasting (7) AGELESS {A{GEL}{E}SS}
5 Please help to make dress material (5) PLAID {PL}{AID}
6 Two containers one after another on eastern ship? That will lead to obesity (9) TUBBINESS {TUB}{BIN}{E}{SS}
7 Example: Remo built a railway station (6) EGMORE {EG}{REMO*}
8 Stretched one's neck! Red can's being crushed (6) CRANED*
11 In favour of the stronghold (4) FORT {FOR}{T}
15 Turn from good game after losing money (9) PIROUETTE {PI}{ROU
17 Can US gear crush this? (5,4) SUGAR CANE* Semi&lit
18 Bordello customer's a pest (6) LOCUST [T]
19 A specialised soldier leads another soldier to get some joining material (7) SEALANT {SEAL}{ANT}
20 Leave one's vehicle temporarily in garden (4) PARK [DD]
21 This relative is sometimes a religious person; sometimes a medical assistant and sometimes both (6) SISTER [DD]
23 Whip knight away from home (5) KNOUT {KN}{OUT}
GRID
28a have a doubt single vs plural.
ReplyDeleteI dont know why the ' is needed. It could just be 'Land Brokers', which would clear this point.
DeleteOr, if at all, it could have been Land Brokers' (for plural the ' comes after)
DeleteThere is no connector here. One can view this apostrophe in two ways. One, as is the convention in clues, punctuation is ignored. Second, the answer is ESTATE AGENT'S.
DeletePrasad's question was that with the apostrophe it does not indicate plural.
DeleteI think,like you say, that in cryptic reading punctuations are ignored answers the point well.
Onion Dome could also be a theme word. It's the infamous new assembly building converted to hospital by the next Govt. Infamous because the dome was not completed in time for inaguration and a film art director was roped in to create a look-alike
ReplyDeleteI was not aware of this information and did not intend them to be a part of the theme. Matching the theme is a coincidence
DeleteLiked the multi tasking sister.
ReplyDelete15D- Pi from?
ReplyDeleteShort, slang, for pious/good.
DeleteOh! News to me.
DeleteI knew only 22/7 and of course 'The life of Pi'.
We live life 24/7. Pic lived it 22/7 ;)
DeleteYou mean pious gave up 2/7 to become pi.
DeleteI parsed it as Pie Roulette - E and L. E for Euro and L for pound. Pie roulette is a well known game. But agree pi for good is better.
DeleteWell placed the puzzles of chennai. Particularly Egmore and guindy impressed me. Colonel and Incognito rocked. Awaiting for Friday X word
ReplyDeleteFifty years ago
ReplyDeleteCrosswords were published in newspapers. Book collections were published regularly. Solutions to newspaper puzzles appeared the next day. A rare solver might collect clippings of puzzles. If he wanted to study clues and answers he has to move back and forth. If it was a puzzle book, he has to move from front to back to front.
If it was a crossword manual, illustrative clues were given with answers available readily. A setter might be tempted to lift a clue from the manual but there was a rare chance he might be caught out by a studious solver. In fact, when a clue in a THC looked quite similar to one in The Anatomy of Crosswords by D. St. P. Bernard, I wrote a letter to the paper. This would happen when the solver comes across the two in a short span of a few hours or a day.
No setter with a gridful of words could go looking for clues in the published puzzles for insertion in his work.
In crossword circles it was accepted that it is quite possible for two writers to craft similar clues for a word. An instance of this in a puzzle is tolerated. If there are many, plagiarism will be suspected.
In the last few decades
After the advent of computers and Internet, things have changed.
While this blog provides clues with answers for THC, UK blogs provide them for the Times, Guardian, FT and DT,
In the beginning days TftT gave annotations to only a few clues of the day’s puzzles, later it gave annotations to most – if not all – clues. Still later it started giving clue text with answers and annotations.
Fifteensquared gives clue text and solutions to three leading UK puzzles.
An entire body of clues and solutions are there and these sites are searchable. In a trice one gets several clues for a single word (if tha latter is in the dB).
Have these sites got permission to use clues from the papers? Invariably not, but the papers condone the practice as they think if more people get into the game, more people might join the paid-for site for puzzles.
THCC, TftT and 15sqd at least have the altruistic aim of introducing the game to more people. The Comments from readers are lively and a bonhomie is created among the visitors.
But there are also certain websites where the clues (whether straightforward or cryptic) and answers from several UK and US puzzles are aggregated and published. Bots - or whatever they are called - sweep, swipe, snatch, smuggle - or whatever the term is – the clues and answers and they seem to exist only for ad revenue. THC has not come to the notice of these sites.
Personally I do not like these databases – searchable databases - as misuse is possible.
While I am not suggesting that anyone ‘borrows’ answers from these sites, I do express my concern that a possibility of misuse exists.
I believe that as the clue yesterday used a UK slang for ‘moneylender’ the Commenter – having come to know of these sites - wondered whether Indian setters were merely borrowing usages/practices/conventions in UK crosswords without keeping the ken of local solvers. That the term is indeed not so rare to any educated person who has read English novels like those of PGW did not occur to her.
Thank you for taking time and effort to explain it so nicely. As many old visitors to this blog know, I am a voracious reader of Plum books and I would be extremely happy if my English bears any influence, however dated, of his works. I concede that neither my English may ever match his, nor the quality of my clues match the quality of my peers, but I can assure you that my clues are mine. Not pinched, borrowed, stolen, misappropriated, et cetera.
DeleteDon't see the problem with a searchable database. After all dictionaries and thesauruses are pretty much the same. It still requires a little skill to either solve or set creatively. Reproduction of course would not earn much credit, and a searchable database will make that even more obvious to others
DeleteAgree about searchable databases. In fact they would be a deterrent to pinching as the plagiarist would be caught quite easily
DeleteInteresting discussion, thanks for calling my attention to it CV sir.
DeleteBot aggregators that scrape content - these are not OK in my book unless the publisher has opted in for it. Whether the scrapers earn revenue off it or not, or whether this lead to misuse or not, are secondary points. The publisher owns the content and has the right to decide how they want to disseminate their content.
Having said that, I believe the availability of easy online search would reduce plagiarism, not increase it. This is how a widespread case of plagiarism was discovered in American crosswords - I had written about this at length here:
Coincidence or Plagiarism: How do we tell?
Thank you, Mr Chaturvasi, for this informative comment. I understand that this is a complex issue. However, you have dismissed the chief question I asked, viz. why setters sometimes include obscure British colloquialisms by implying that I was not 'an educated person who has read English novels like those of PGW'. As it happens, I am an admirer of Wodehouse, as I am of Chaucer and Spenser. However, I would find it odd for an Indian crossword clue to include an archaic meaning out of Spenser's or Chaucer's lexicon. Doesn't the richness of the English language allows setters to create clues that don't have to depend on British English anachronisms? Today's wonderful set of clues about Chennai are a case in point -- they speak to Indian cultural knowledge. We could have a longer discussion on postcolonial English and the kinds of cultural capital it privileges but I suspect that this is not the forum for such reflections. Thank you for taking the trouble to comment.
DeleteHello. What's TftT?
DeleteApropos the Colonel's remark about Madras Central, it would have been a pleasure to include it as it is the second longest station name in the world. The Hindu doesn't permit clues which cover multiple lights, so it cannot come in a TH grid
ReplyDeleteWhen Bangalore station was renamed as Krantivira Sangolli Rayanna railway station it's short form is KSR Bangalore
DeleteSo Madras Central will now be known as PTDMGR Chennai
28 across. Possessive apostrophe or plural indicator are used by compilers to puncture the solvers’ egos into a state of apoplexy. The last laugh is the compilers’ or the solvers’ ! Here, chose between agent’s or brokers. The answer is immediate aha moment !
ReplyDeleteIncognito is best as the hold -the- little -finger -and lead kind of compiler !
so nice and solvable! I thank you, Incognito. I always rush to solve your Xword!
ReplyDeleteWho doesn't?!
DeleteOff topic
ReplyDeleteI have posted on Facebook: Chatur Vasi a crossword in Tamil by Pichai Vanchinathan. Please see if you can access it, should you be interested in it.
Thank you. I used to solve Tamil CW's in Dinamalar Sunday edition, but they were too elementary.
ReplyDeleteI propose that the authorities follow cryptic compilers and adopt pseudonyms, while renaming places and landmarks!
ReplyDeleteLots of interesting comments today. The word in question, which started off this discussion, pawn=uncle is not at all uncommon and appeared in THC many times.
ReplyDeleteThe CU post is a very interesting and instructive one.
+1.
DeleteI think the bigger problem was that it was a DD. Perhaps, for a word association like that one, something that’s not a part of our daily vocabulary, WP clues are a better option
DeleteThat might have been a problem to some. But looking at the overall difficulty of the puzzle, it was one of the harder clues.. but gettable from the two defs, crossings.
DeleteWell, it’s not about getting the answer, eventually. If most of the crossings are in, some times, you may not even need a clue. It Is quite possible. That’s not the point. How the clue stands on its own and how solvable is it, without crossings, and logically at that, without any ambiguity ? That’s something for setters to think about.
DeleteAs I see it, there are certain words that definitely need some kind of WP rather than a CD or a DD, to make it unambiguous. You may not know the word and yet, you could logically arrive at the solution.
You do have a point.
DeleteFrom the point of view of fairness to the solver, was the clue fair? Would an average solver got it without crossings?
Indian uncle screams a DD. Uncle=pawn, perhaps. If you had never heard of a pawnee Indian, Little chance you would have got it, but if you had, it becomes easy. Of course with WP, you might have a better chance.
Amitaji, don’t you want to learn new words, phrases& idioms & names of places. The beauty of cryptic crosswords is that one learns so many things with each crossword. The setters also love to be more creative against each other and more so, against themselves !
ReplyDelete