Tuesday, 26 July 2011

No 10216, Tuesday 26 Jul 11, Gridman

ACROSS
1   - San adapting injured bears (5,6) - GIANT PANDAS*
9   - Where weapons are kept, yours and mine, among militia (7) - {ARM{OUR}Y} ARMOURY
10 - Is inclined to be in church to purge bad thoughts, perhaps (7) - {C{LEANS}E} CLEANSE
11 - Fractional amount often thriftily secreted (5) - TENTH [T]
12 - If you do, can cuttings go into it? (9) - SCRAPBOOK &lit
13 - Tennis shoe in bad taste (5) - {T}ACKY Anno pending ([DD] - See comments) TACKY
15 - Men's acts I interpreted for a linguist's study (9) - SEMANTICS*
18 - Odd, possessing at that time one unit of element (9) - {RU{THEN}{I}{U}M} RUTHENIUM
21 - Greek character — he gets endless pitch after short time (5) - {T}{HE}{TAr} THETA
22 - I'm staging show, having excessive growth (9) - GIGANTISM*
24 - A fool that I am, I'd the paper withdrawn (5) - {ID}{IOT<-} IDIOT
26 - Soft! Rani, pushing one ahead, has tailless fish (7) - {P}{(+i)IRAN(-i)}{HAs} PIRANHA
27 - Art demanding manyfold paper work? (7) - ORIGAMI [CD]
28 - Jumbo plan in the making within the limits of Erode (11) - {Ero{LEPHANTIN*}dE} ELEPHANTINE
DOWN
1   - Massive heavenly body attracts soldier, worker, saint and sailor (5,4) - {GI}{ANT} {S}{TAR} GIANT STAR
2   - The Hindu self has no time to admit deputy commercial guy (5) - A(-t+d)DMAN ADMAN
3   - Hit keys unseeingly but feelingly (5-4) - TOUCH-TYPE [CD]
4   - Animals about to cross Bellary's hollow pits (7) - {A{BellarY}SSES} ABYSSES
5   - After last month, old spirit exhibits proper behaviour (7) - {DEC}{O}{RUM} DECORUM
6   - The woman has a record for submissive bunch (5) - {SHE}{EP} SHEEP
7   - Organise labour into a force, and the news agency makes noise (8) - {UNI}{ONISE*} Where is the AInd? UNIONISE
8   - Biblical inheritors (4) - MEEK [CD]
14 - Classification of actress full of blood (8) - {CATE}{GORY} CATEGORY
16 - Guilt cheat abandoned for a version of new food (9) - (+~new){NU}{conTRITION} NUTRITION
17 - Crazy in-laws set diagonally (9) - SLANTWISE*
19 - To follow suit, I look for sex appeal in friend (7) - {I}{M{IT}ATE} IMITATE
20 - A couple of Frenchmen in light aircraft appear bulky (7) - {M{A}{MM}OTH} MAMMOTH
22 - Stare amazedly at the head of gross monkey (4) - {G}{APE} GAPE
23 - I leave Connie confused for now (5) - NONCEi* NONCE
25 - One from Baghdad — one with spirit, say (5) - {I}{RAQI}(~raki) IRAQI

GRID


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76 comments:

  1. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 08:36

    Referring to yesterday's Bellary incident in THC, read with today's "hollow pits" reference, I have a feeling that Gridman has been following the Karnataka mining controversy deeply, referring to redrawing of state boundaries and over exploitation of mines. Why Bellary, even Bangalore may be a part of AP, what with the first CM and a slew of 'mine' ministers carrying the surname Reddy.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Bhavan26 July 2011 at 08:36

    13 - Tennis shoe in bad taste (5) - {T}ACKY Anno pending TACKY

    Its a DD.

    tackies, takkies [ˈtækɪz]
    pl n sing tacky
    (Clothing & Fashion) South African informal tennis shoes or plimsolls.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Bhavan26 July 2011 at 08:37

    7 - Organise labour into a force, and the news agency makes noise (8) - {UNI}{ONISE*} Where is the AInd?

    Makes will not do ?

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  4. SandhyaP26 July 2011 at 08:38

    13 - Tennis shoe in bad taste (5) - {T}ACKY Anno pending TACKY

    It's a DD.

    TACKIES (singular - TACKY) are tennis shoes (South African slang)

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tackies

    ReplyDelete
  5. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 08:42

    Rajeev

    Please see under yesterday's post my anno for a clue that you sought.

    Sudalamani/Raju

    Please do see my comments today under yesterday's post to some late evening notes.

    Mission statement

    Any solver is perfectly entitled to question the wordplay in any clue in Gridman's work; they may also make any critical remarks even as they bestow occasional praise (if warranted!).

    I will try to address the concerns.

    If any mistake is established, Gridman will unhesitatingly and openly apologise to readers.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Deepak Gopinath26 July 2011 at 08:53

    Bhavan @ 0837,

    I don't think it will, in my opinion!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Deepak Gopinath26 July 2011 at 08:55

    Bhavan & Sandhya,

    Thanks. Far fetched though, not the thanks but tacky.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Bhavan26 July 2011 at 08:57

    @Col, then you should be having the same issue with 28A where 'making' is used in the same capacity ...

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  9. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 08:59

    Chambers Crossword Dictionary (2000, 2006) has a list of anagram indicators used in crosswords in the UK and I now find that it lists 'make' under it. But, Deepak, you can still hold on to your opinion.

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  10. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 09:01

    Far fetched though, not the thanks but tacky.

    Indeed, from South Africa.

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  11. Sumit26 July 2011 at 09:10

    Make is to set things in order, like making one's bed. So I feel it can be used as an anagram indicator.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Deepak Gopinath26 July 2011 at 09:12

    Somehow the positioning of 'makes' as the AInd in 7D did not give me a clear indication for it's intended use.

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  13. Bhavan26 July 2011 at 09:14

    My understanding is generally verbs when used as AIs, precede the fodder.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Deepak Gopinath26 July 2011 at 09:14

    Let me break it down as to how I saw it

    Organise labour into a force, and the news agency makes noise (8)

    Organise labour into a force = Definition
    and the = Connector
    news agency = UNI
    makes noise = Does it lead to ONISE* ?

    ReplyDelete
  15. Sumit26 July 2011 at 09:14

    A grammar question:

    24 - A fool that I am, I'd the paper withdrawn (5)

    In the above sentence, can I had be abbreviated as I'd?

    ReplyDelete
  16. Bhavan26 July 2011 at 09:21

    makes noise = Does it lead to ONISE* ?

    Yes, I'd say so. It is an instruction for the solver to make/sort/arrange NOISE to get ONISE.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 09:25

    My understanding is generally verbs when used as AIs, precede the fodder.

    True.

    Here it is 'making' within the confines of some other component. Isn't the function still that of a verb?

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  18. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 09:26

    CV Sir, Thanks for the confirmation. At times I feel we are raising the bar when it comes to Gridman's puzzles while being a bit lax to other setters. Happy that you are always keen to defend yourself. Great that a setter is a regular member amongst us.

    Today, reg. 'makes noise', I am with the Col in that it is not a very clear instruction. 'Made noise' would have been perfect for me :)

    In the above sentence, can I had be abbreviated as I'd?
    What is the ambiguity in doing so? Seems fine, na?

    ReplyDelete
  19. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 09:29

    @ Sumit09:14

    Why not?

    I'd contracted from 'I would', or 'I had'; also used for 'I should'. (Chambers)

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 09:37

    @Col, then you should be having the same issue with 28A where 'making' is used in the same capacity ...

    I think in this clue 'making' could be viewed as a noun in the cryptic reading. fodder making = fodder production, which is good enough for anagram indication.

    ReplyDelete
  21. David Dobson26 July 2011 at 09:46

    Wow, looks like everybody is wrapped up in 15A today!
    I really enjoyed the puzzle today and had no issues with it.
    I think the comment about setting different levels for different setters is completely true - today's crossword is on a galaxy far far away from last weeks offerings.
    Thanks gridman - loved it!

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  22. Suresh26 July 2011 at 09:59

    Agree David. No issues. Very enjoyable

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  23. Sumit26 July 2011 at 10:07

    Sudalamani/ Chaturvasi,
    When reading it out, "I'd the paper" didn't sound as good as "I had the paper" and hence wanted to check if there was any rule against using a contracted form before "the", like you don't use contracted forms at the end of a sentence.

    ReplyDelete
  24. David Dobson26 July 2011 at 10:22

    Oh you've lured me in to the semantic discussion!
    Actually I find it is the other way round. It sounds fine out loud but you do have a double take when it is written down (but it's not wrong).
    Another example would be "I'd the strangest dream last night".
    I think pretty much everything gets contracted in speech (a lazy lot, we Brits) but then depending on the context of the written word you might not contract, but in reported speech and informal text we're pretty lenient!

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  25. Suresh26 July 2011 at 10:24

    Sumit read the whole clue and it would read like a poetic usage

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  26. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 10:51

    CV Sir

    If you can, can you please clarify the surface of 1A? Perhaps one can adopt bears when they are calves :D, but 'adapting injured bears'?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 10:52

    Fully agree with David and Suresh that the wordplay instructions in this puzzle were by and large very clear, enabling solvers to slide through swiftly.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 10:54

    I thoroughly enjoyed the puzzle today.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Suresh26 July 2011 at 11:17

    Maybe San has a love for animals in distress, Sudalmani

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  30. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 11:26

    If you can, can you please clarify the surface of 1A? Perhaps one can adopt bears when they are calves, but 'adapting injured bears'?

    This Sudalamani always asks questions that I considered and satisfied myself that what is written is passable, even if not OK.

    Suresh, what he means is shouldn't the word be 'adopt' rather than 'adapt'.

    'Adopting' won't work as part of anag. fodder.

    The surface reading is no great shakes but 'adapt' can mean 'make fit' and Gridman must have left it at that. You can make an injured bear fit by ministering to it!

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  31. Suresh26 July 2011 at 11:48

    A la Master Shifu?

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  32. Suresh26 July 2011 at 12:01

    An aside. Has it become universally accepted to say 12 am and 12 pm ? I hate that usage, but everybody in India and USA seem to be using it.

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  33. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 12:12

    What, no mention of today's theme? I guess the others have missed the BIG picture. :P

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  34. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 12:19

    Honestly I was just having fun, rather than criticising ;) I'd come a cropper if someone asked me to set a puzzle and write 30 clues!

    Another small gripe: GIANT occurs twice in the solution and both emanate from the same location. Maybe Gridman intended this, but a different word would have given more variety, IMHO.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Suresh26 July 2011 at 12:41

    Try some gripe water, Sudalamani;))

    ReplyDelete
  36. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 12:49

    Oh, and could someone explain to me why 12A is an &lit?

    ReplyDelete
  37. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 12:50

    Yes, that should have been avoided.

    But having put all the acrosses in top left corner, for the firsr Down G?A?T?T?R the setter had no other choice (does anyone have a possibility?)

    Note that there is no allusion to the humongousness (doesn't the word 'humongous' have a noun form?) word 'giant' in the clue for 1a.

    But with GIGANTISM elsewhere, these two words would get you the big picture that Navneeth mentions above (G. did have that in his mind!)

    ReplyDelete
  38. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 12:55

    12a If you do, can cuttings go into it? (9) is not an &lit.

    At best (or worst!) it is a CD.

    If you do, that is if you scrap [a] book, if you cut out things from a book, they could go into a SCRAPBOOK.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 13:10

    Thanks for the clarification, Chaturvasi.

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  40. Suresh26 July 2011 at 13:10

    CV What exactly would be an &lit. I am not too clear on this

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  41. Suresh26 July 2011 at 13:19

    Suchi's def is 'wordplay and definition overlap'

    By this def I would read 12a as a CD and a good one at that.

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  42. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 13:34

    An &lit clue is one which has a wordplay but its definition cannot be shown by boldening a word or a couple of words at the beginning or the end of a clue (as our Col does).

    For def, one has to re-read the clue in its entirety.

    Finding the term &lit unhelpful, a UK blogger calls it 'all in one' (which too is not quite illuminating IMHO).

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  43. Suresh26 July 2011 at 13:58

    I find the distinction between CDs and & lit to be very fine and this is where I get confused. That is when I start worrying about the fineries, which is rarely.

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  44. Suresh26 July 2011 at 13:59

    Any thoughts on my 12:01?

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  45. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 14:16

    Suresh
    Of course a CD too does not have a def at the beginning or end of the clue. You get the sol. by thinking off the top of your head. But a CD does not have a subsidiary ind.

    An &lit has a subsidiary indication (anag, hidden, etc) but for def you have to reread the whole clue.

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  46. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 14:17

    I would use 12 noon and 12 midnight.

    No idea about what others do.

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  47. Suresh26 July 2011 at 14:22

    Thanks for the clarifications. CV

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  48. Suresh26 July 2011 at 14:25

    But let us take the example I quoted yesterday

    Individual of some pride (4) giving LION. Would this be & lit or CD or both

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  49. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 14:39

    It is not an &lit. Because there is no wordplay (anag, hidden, etc) whatever in it.

    It is not what the Col calls E (dictionary def)

    It may be - mark my words, may be - termed a CD because it does not refer to an individual possessing the noble quality of pride but rather a creature that forms part of a pride - a collective noun for lions. It is this that imparts a cryptic quality to the clue.

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  50. David Dobson26 July 2011 at 14:40

    Just to be perverse, I find that I tend to say midnight but 12 am - hadn't thought about it before. I am now paranoid about my inconsistency.

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  51. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 14:43

    Chaturvasi@14:17,
    In your case, are the 12s necessary?

    ReplyDelete
  52. Deepak Gopinath26 July 2011 at 14:53

    My reason for thinking of 12A as an &lit

    If you do (scrap a book), can cuttings (scraps of the book) go into it (the scrap book)

    ReplyDelete
  53. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 14:58

    Navneeth

    You have me there!

    ReplyDelete
  54. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 15:02

    Deepak 14:53

    'Scrap' not in the sense of 'bin it' or 'give it to a ruddywallah' but 'make cuttings out of'. In which case, they may go into a scrapbook - a different one that you have been cherishing!

    ReplyDelete
  55. Suresh26 July 2011 at 15:04

    Tks CV that clarifies

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  56. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 15:07

    Navneeth

    On further thoughts

    We may say 'I am taking a train at noon' or 'The ghost arrived at midnight'.

    But when you're answering the question "What's the time?" and when it's 'bhaara bhaje' you would say 12 noon or 12 midnight.

    Don't ask me if light or darkness would not suggest it.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Suresh26 July 2011 at 15:09

    Sure Navneeth 12 would be redundant. But it is a usage which is customarily accepted.

    David, Correct me if I am wrong. I do recall seeing use of 12 pm even on BBC. It sounded terrible

    ReplyDelete
  58. David Dobson26 July 2011 at 15:33

    Ah, the BBC isn't the bastion of grammar it used to be! However I guess that perhaps we should see language as something that is continually evolving otherwise we would all still be thee-ing and thou- ing. I must admit that I am turning into a grumpy old man though and quite often want to hurl objects at the tv. My pet hate at the moment is that the Australian and American habit of raising the pitch of the voice at the end of a statement, has now reached the UK. It makes every sentence into a question and drives me absolutely crazy!

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  59. Suresh26 July 2011 at 15:37

    Precisely. Language is constantly evolving. I gets to become 'official' when something like an OED endorses it. Just wondering whether this has happened or are a whole mass of people making a mistake?

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 15:49

    What happens when one scraps a scrapbook? Does one save desirable/retainable bits of it in another book, which becomes the updated scrapbook?

    Shades of Godel's theorem there?

    ReplyDelete
  61. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 15:54

    Chaturvasi@15:07,

    Don't ask me if light or darkness would not suggest it.

    I won't, because beyond the Arctic and Antarctic circles the presence or absence of daylight is not all that useful for differentiating midnight and noon for a good part of the year. ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 16:16

    Kishore@15:49,
    Genetic evolution is more like it.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Chaturvasi26 July 2011 at 16:16

    Navneeth@15:07

    My grandson has gone to B'lore, else I would have called him and enquired him about the statement. He is a 'geo-expert' and often tells me things that I don't know or never cared about.

    ReplyDelete
  64. David Dobson26 July 2011 at 16:47

    Guess that's what the young are there for. Fuddling our aged grey matter with new fangled ideas we never realised we needed. My middle son is a physics gerk and he doesn't seem to understand that no matter how many times he tries to explain string theory to me, I am never going to understand. I can only get my own back by quoting obscure bits of 17th century French literature at him.

    ReplyDelete
  65. David Dobson26 July 2011 at 16:48

    *geek

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anonymous26 July 2011 at 17:41

    David Dobson,
    I'm not sure what's the big deal with imagining simple one-dimensional strings in an eleven-dimensional space-time, vibrating in different modes to give you the rich tapestry that is our universe.

    ;-)

    FWIW, I'm currently reading a book (aimed at the layman) that is a critique of string theory and the academic culture that it has given rise to in the past two decades.

    ReplyDelete
  67. veer26 July 2011 at 17:50

    @Kishore 15:49 - Or is it Escher's staircase?

    ReplyDelete
  68. David Dobson26 July 2011 at 18:44

    @navneethc - it feels just like being back home :-)

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  69. Ramani26 July 2011 at 19:21

    Yesterday and today the No of Comments is on the very high side for a 'non-NJ'crossword day! Anybody noticed?

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  70. David Jayaprakash John26 July 2011 at 21:09

    Lot of giants in the puzzle today! But David slew them all.

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  71. Labakku Das27 July 2011 at 00:34

    A newcomer here. A very basic question- Is Gridman the pseudonym for Chaturvasi? :)

    ReplyDelete
  72. Chaturvasi27 July 2011 at 05:51

    Yes.

    See

    http://www.crosswordunclued.com/2009/02/interviews-with-ace-solvers-part-ii.html

    Also scroll down to C. G. Rishikesh in the page below:

    http://bestforpuzzles.com/people/r.html

    Also to 'Rishi' under 'former bloggers' in the page below:

    http://fifteensquared.net/bloggers/

    ReplyDelete
  73. Chaturvasi27 July 2011 at 06:06

    Can anyone believe that "And I lack the runs" is the anag. of you know who? (Courtesy: a UK friend)

    Perhaps a temporary aberration.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Deepak Gopinath27 July 2011 at 08:25

    At Lords , Yes.

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  75. Anonymous27 July 2011 at 08:29

    David 2109

    Well, we have two Davids (yourself and Dobson) to take care of the two Giants (star and panda). Who slew the Mammoth of 20d?

    ReplyDelete
  76. raju umamaheswar27 July 2011 at 14:50

    raju umamaheswar said...
    Goodman-Gridman. It was a breeze today-- nay, what a fresh breath of air from the noodled brain that we end up with NJ's. I multi-tasked solving this , watching the 9 pm Times Now and could finish within 12n minutes flat. I fully agree with David that Gridman took us into another Galaxy. 15 Across apart.

    Sudalamani is perhaps right; it is a 'not done' thing , repeating a word and that too, in the same zone. Anyway.

    Raju Umamaheswar

    ReplyDelete

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