Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.
- Samuel Coleridge (The Rime of the Ancient Mariner)
This is a stupendous effort from Sunnet to include a dozen Indian rivers into the grid. It will rightly be categorised by some solvers as being on the tough end of THC cryptic scale - probably too hard for a weekday. I wish there was a crossword editor at Hindu who can schedule puzzles like these on a Saturday so that solvers can afford to spend more time.
1 Look for power before a long time (6) VISAGE (VIS + AGE)
4 Gradually chewed through a storage unit (3-2-3) BIT-BY-BIT (BIT + BY + BIT)
10 Southern side’s fashionable transport (9) STEAMSHIP (S + TEAM'S + HIP)
RMS Titanic
11 Did this river give us our identity? (5) INDUS (CD)12 Runner nearly knocks it back (5) TAPTI (TAP
13 Like going inside an Indian market for a flower (9) MANDAKINI (AKIN inside MANDI) Flower as in one that flows
14 One of the original couple rushed over a waterway (7) NARMADA (ADAM + RAN)<=
16 Stream some cool university lectures (4) LUNI (T) Was misled by 'lectures' for a while.
19 Flower in North-East taken from a gorge (4) RAVI (RAVI
21 Sugar from half drawn flower (7) SUCROSE (SUC
24 Present for a servant (9) ATTENDANT (DD)
25 Did she get locked in on the way down to Earth? (5) GANGA (CD) Locked as in hairlocks
26 Release international organisation’s writer (5) UNPEN (UN + PEN)
27 Loathe to swallow rotten meat, one which is a source of iron (9) HAEMATITE (HATE outside MEAT* I))
28 Evened out old claim at the beginning (8) AVERAGED (AVER + AGED)
29 Joseph emptied an animal’s back for banker (6) JHELUM (J
DOWN
1 Locating a computer editor ahead of travelling (8) VISITING (VI + SITING)
2 Secret ones // on the tracks (8) SLEEPERS (DD)
3 Our state flanks Montana’s river (5) GOMTI (GOI outside MT)
5 Enlist a pint-sized demon to rough up Neal (7) IMPANEL (IMP + NEAL*)
6 Sadly BRIC nations lack some sophistication and some of the oomph of the United Kingdom (9) BRITANNIC (BRIC NATI
7 Needle a person’s relative (6) BODKIN (BOD + KIN)
8 Casually add to drunkard’s rising offence (4,2) TOSS, IN (SOT<= + SIN)
9 Begin to appreciate that man’s detailed opinion concerning non-violence (6) AHIMSA (A + HIM + SA
15 Burn Lanka possibly and part of Ashokavana (9) ALAKNANDA (LANKA* + AND + A)
17 Bird perhaps born in an elevated area (8) HORNBILL (BORN* inside HILL)
20 Terrible one to unearth a book (7) IVANHOE (IVAN + HOE)
21 ...could be just protecting the French banker (6) SUTLEJ (JUST* outisde LE)
22 Edible root found regularly in Luanda’s creek (6) YAMUNA (YAM +
23 Primary // pin (6) STAPLE (DD)
25 Reported a former tennis champion’s plot (5) GRAPH (~GRAF)
Toughie. But wow !
ReplyDeleteI didn't solve this puz. But, as I glance at the clues and the answers, I find that many clues have been handled well. E.g., 9d (AHIMSA), 25d.
ReplyDeleteAs I further glance, I might want to add some more examples of competent clueing.
ReplyDeletenice and smooth Flowing crossword w/o the recent turbulence seen in rivers in Uttarakhand
ReplyDeleteWhy have lectutres at all in 16A?
ReplyDeleteThat was the source of my confusion too. For a while I thought it somehow indicated containment/hiding but then saw 'some'
DeleteStream some cool university lectures (4) LUNI
DeleteIdeally a telescopic clue must not have extra words. Here the ans is hidden in 'cool university'. The extra word 'lectures' adds to the surface reading of the clue. Without it, I would consider it meaningless. an extra word is a lesser evil.
'Stream in a cool university' would suffice
DeleteOf course, but that is a rewrite.
Delete11 Did this river give us our identity? (5) INDUS (CD)
ReplyDeleteCould somebody explain this to me?
The words India and Hindu come from the same source, Indus or Sindhu
DeleteI thought it was a cryptic reference to the Indus valley civilization. Or it could be that Sunnet meant it as a charade of sorts with IND (our identity) + US
DeleteAnother intrpretation can be
DeleteOur identity= Indian= IND
When this is added to US
We get INDUS
As per wiki, Indus was originally Sindhu river which in Old Persian became Hindus.
DeleteIndia of course is Hindustan thus the clue
While all resonances mentioned are there, Bhavan's hazard and Kishore's interpretation are most apt and must have been as intended by the setter.
DeleteIf memory serves me right, the Sindhu was called Indus by the Greeks (just like many other Greek names ending with s) and people near it wee called the Indoi, which in turn led to India, Hindu and Hindustan
DeleteGreat. Thank you.
DeleteDidn't get the Anno for 25A. Too vague in my opinion.
ReplyDelete'she' is a bit vague. Or you have to assume that Ganga is a goddess' s name + river
DeleteA bit of Hindu myth... involved with the locks isue.
DeleteLocks are the key to this
DeleteMy lock didn't open with that key!!
DeleteHave you recovered your 20% ?
DeleteSuppose a couple of spellings are of US origin -'impanel'?
ReplyDeleteis impanel US spelling? Chambers and ODE don't say so?
DeleteI think we can pardon Sunnet for that as he had to bung in 12 rivers into the CW.
DeleteAs per thefreedictionary
Deleteimpanel [ɪmˈpænəl]
vb -els, -elling, -elled US, -els -eling, -eled
(Law) a variant spelling (esp US) of empanel
impanelment n
I am not sure it is US. Another similar word pair 'indorse' and 'endorse' both exist in British English
DeleteChambers.co.uk did not return meaning for it.
ReplyDeleteNor unpen.Did not check with that Dics hard copy.
ReplyDeleteSo the national river integration plan has finally reached th paper stage
ReplyDeleteIdeas for such India-related thematic crosswords welcome. Any list may have between six and ten words, of varying length. Avoid religion, caste and such touchy themes.
ReplyDeleteState hill town
ReplyDeleteLanguage port
ReplyDeleteReligion can be a theme in te form of names of religions
ReplyDeleteTake
ReplyDeleteGANDHI
NEHRU
INDIRA
TILAK
RAJENDRA PRASAD
SHASTRI
PATEL
AMBEDKAR
BOSE
LOHIA
...
Will be rather difficult to clue.
Another difficulty is, would these short names do?
If we were to use full names like RAM MANOHAR LOHIA, gridfilling will be a problem. More so the clueing.
Any thoughts on this dilemma?
Select only surnames <9 letters
DeleteI think surnames would suffice if it's unique or popular. For instance, GANDHI, NEHRU, AMBEDKAR etc. Names like PATEL and SHASTRI are too common and including them in the grid may not do justice to the theme, IMHO. So it could be a mix of surnames and full names.
DeleteRailway oddities
ReplyDeleteVenkatanarasimharajuvaripeta, anyone ?
Longest rly station name in India.
DeleteCan get to Tirupati before I spell this one correctly
DeleteI was just giving suggestions for CV's 929
DeleteIncidentally, D.V.Sashank does not do crosswords
ReplyDeleteMOst enjoyable crossword today.
ReplyDeleteI always mention this station with prefix Sri and it is on the way to Tirupati from Chennai.
ReplyDeleteTOUGHEST puzzle ! Result ? This so called Trainee Pilot experienced a Tail Spin and Crash Landed, but out of danger !
ReplyDeleteHoping for a better Take-Off tomorrow !!
Try a Lomcovak !
DeleteNo way ! A trainee pilot doing a Lomcovak !! :)
DeleteJoin a crash course !
DeleteBut does every one finish the crash course ? Or do folks drop out in the middle ?
DeleteKishore @ 12:29 == No crash course please ! I follow the maxim "Slow and steady wins the race" ! So I'll take up the course mentioned by RameshJ @ 1:12 without fail ! Promise !!
DeleteBig Kudos to Sunnet for pulling this one off. I can really appreciate the kind of efforts that would've gone into filling the grids and clues for such an extensive themed puzzle. Some of the words used in this particular grid could be intimidating for any setter as wordplay options are pretty limited. Nice job!
ReplyDeletePunkers invite a maharaja avatar trained here (28)
ReplyDeleteOh, I was not suggesting you clue it in ! I was just listing possible themes, incluging railway oddities like e above, Ghoom, Kharagpur etc.
DeleteI have taken part in UK-based CWCs where a long anagram fodder (say 48 or 52 letters, to suggest how long it can be) will be given and we need to suggest an anagram - no clue need be written.
ReplyDeleteThe Jumbo crossword in the Sunday Times has long anagram clues, I think. Suresh might vouchsafe, as I don't solve online crosswords now.
I do not do the Sunday Times, but I have seen such long anagrams in the Guardian as well and I do not particularly enjoy them. The surfaces in these are generally poor and it requires the use of pen and paper, both of which are put-offs for me.
DeleteThanks for all the feedback.
ReplyDeleteA couple of corrections did not make it to the final print version ( I had made two sets of changes to the clues. The first one was picked up, but the second one probably came in too late to be picked up)
15D : "Mammoth! Burn battered Lanka and part of Ashokavana" (9)
22D : Edible root found regularly in Luanda's watercourse (6)
11A : Did this river give us our identity? (5) INDUS (CD)
This was intended as a cryptic defn as Bhavan has noted. India/Indian getting its name from the river Indus.
16A : Stream some cool university lectures (4) LUNI (T)
I wasn't aware that extra words were a no-no for this type of clue. Will keep that in mind in the future.
25A : 25 Did she get locked in on the way down to Earth? (5) GANGA (CD)
This one refers to Hindu folk lore of how Ganga on the way down to earth tried to wash away Shiva who in turn tied her into his hair locks.
26A Release international organisation’s writer (5) UNPEN
The free dictionary (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unpen) puts the word origin to be in 1585. So unlikely to be an American word
5D Enlist a pint-sized demon to rough up Neal (7) IMPANEL
Again the first known use of this word is 15th century.
Ramesh, yaar, hum to paani-paani ho gaye !
DeleteMain tho doob gaya !!
DeleteThe sinking feeling is what I had about a year back when I encountered a Buzzer zinger. I struggled hard to solve the puzzle but was left with too many holes in the grid. Then uncle Google came to my rescue and I found this blog. I learned that there is a scientific approach to solving CWs.
DeleteHere is what has worked for me
1) I read a clue multiple times. I identify the clue components i.e defn, word play, type of clue etc.
2) I start mentally listing the synonyms for the defn, if one of them seems to fits, I check to see if the word play explains the defn
3) If list the synonym approach fails, I look at the word play and see if I can get parts that can fill the grid & then see if I can extend these parts to get a synonym
4) For anangram clues that I cannot solve by sight, I write the letters that i need to jumble in a circle before trying to solve it
5) I begin with down clues. Quite often setters set clues in order, so down clues some times are easier than across ones.
6) If all else fails take a break. Often I find that crosswords some how become easier to solve after a break.
7) I follow this golden rule : If I cannot explain the clue completely, I do not fill it in ( unless all crossing are in) . This keeps the grid clean & knowing that all your previous answers are correct helps your mind focus on the clue at hand.
Keep plugging away at it. You will be amazed how quickly you move from being a novice to solving it like a pro.
Hi RameshJ !
DeleteYes, I do follow most of the rules that you have quoted above, but my limited vocabulary seems to be a hindrance. So first thing I'll have to improve my English. BTW some of my comments might be sounding a bit exaggerated but it's all in fun, nothing serious ! Thanks for the encouragement. I shall keep plugging away at it ! Cheers !!
Ramesh
DeleteGood tips - ones that I have followed consciously and un-.
However, I disagree with your statement, though you have qualified them very carefully and well enough: Quite often setters set clues in order, so down clues some times are easier than across ones.
As far as I am concerned I often write Down set clues first. Even here, I start from the end-most and work upwards. Whether I do this or not, the clues don't get easier as I reach the final ones or they are not necessarily hard because Iw rote them first.
I qualified it, because of late I set clues differently. I pick the words based on how tough they are to clue. I start with the ones that I think are the toughest to clue and work backwards till I get to the one which is the easiest to clue. This leaves me with the flexibility to pick and choose the clue types of the easier to clue words to ensure a reasonable balance wrt to variety of clues in the CW.
DeleteMB@3:10
DeleteSetters are notorious for reusing the same words ( ask Suresh ;) ). So over time you will be familiar with most of the words. The only trouble is remembering what one has learnt :)
:) ...I shall keep this point too in my mind ! (Carefully) !!
DeleteAnother theme could be erstwhile princely states and monarchs.
ReplyDeleteAnother theme could be Indian/Indian origin dresses : Jodhpurs, Pyjama. Kurta, Sherwani, Saree etc
ReplyDeleteIndian words for clothes is a good idea.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, breaking up Indian words into components and using English indications for them is not so easy, as my experience suggests.
Now, I often come across the term 'kurti'. Is this word a recent origin? Or is it as old as kurtas?
ReplyDeleteUnlike kutta (dog, masc., in Hindi) and its feminine gender kutti, kurti, I guess, is a modern-day variation of kurta, with shorter sleeves and shorter body length.
DeleteNeedless to say, more on the figure-hugging side. Sorry, can't be more explicit.
Kurtis are a female prerogative.
DeleteIndian ethnic groups and tribes ( I dred to use the word ' caste' lest I run into trouble. Due care will have to be taken to encure that words like Dogra are not clued in the obvious way, or the puppy issue will rer its head here.
ReplyDeleteExtremely well made crossword. Hats Off to you Sunnet
ReplyDeleteIndian dishes (including sweets and savouries) could be another theme - Raita, Pulao, curry, samosa, puran poli, mysorepak, dhokla, kachori, vada, shrikhand, shakkarpara, gulab jamun, payasam,kheer, ...
ReplyDeleteOf these setters - not only in India but the UK as well - have had RAITA, PULAO and SAMOSA and maybe even VADA and IDLI, but they have not tried the others you have listed.
DeleteKishore has rightly juxtaposed 'crash course' with pilot training. The term ‘crash course' stems from the term ‘crash land’ in which a landing has to be made, in unfavourable circumstances. Likewise, a crash course implies that there is an urgent need to learn something regardless of the circumstances.
ReplyDeleteAs usual I do the crosswords in the evening due to the nature of my work. Found it hard initially , but once I got the first river ,the rest became easy. On the whole a very enjoyable crossword.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with using Indian words as theme is that the spellings are not standardized -- which can really be a major issue. Pyjama can also be spelled as Pajama; and so on. This taken with complex word plays, and where Googling for answers may not help may set up the poor novice solvers for a run around!
ReplyDeleteVery unusual and smooth flowing crossword with a theme- base on rivers ! The moment I got INDUS, at my first attempt, I realised that the grid is likely to have more river names. GANGA then flowed out of Gangotri and thought-association immediately connected it to lock- of Jata dhari and bingo it was !
ReplyDeleteI have done quite a few of the Sunday Times of London Jumbo puzzles and very many are pending disposal. The longest anagrams were a common feature but it was fun. Strangely, I find it easier to solve with pen on paper rather than the online ones, where one has to keep flipping up and down constantly---- such a pain and strain for the eyes !! Or is it an ocular exercise, aiding and leading to better vision?
I must thank the Indian setters for their thematic crosswords and usage of Indian terms-- and of course to the THCC 's bossman for this blog. This is a unique feature of cryptic crosswords, not found elsewhere, and I have come to relish them after arrival in India three years ago.
I can appreciate Sunnet's efforts to keep us regaled and doff my hat off for him !
Enjoyable CW, on the whole. Like Jaggu above, I couldn't do it one sitting, but the last few remaining clues fell easily, once I was inside the bus on the way home.
ReplyDeleteCongrats to Ramesh for including so many thematic answers. I was about to suggest that 'creek' can hardly be used to describe Yamuna, but it has been clarified above. I do, however, have to quibble about the usage of the same words for definition in multiple clues (the themed ones), like flower, banker etc. This is not new, of course, as we've seen this happen in other setters' offerings as well (this grid is an exception, in that more than one word have been used multiple times). Personally, I'd rather have the theme gradually 'dawn upon' me as I solve and look at the answers, than be told right at the outset what it's going to be. It's especially satisfying to find out that words which initially seemed unrelated per the definition's context, are actually related.
Clue of my day: IVANHOE--- unless one has done crossies before where the reference to Terrible relate to IVAN the TERRIBLE, this compilation is not for tyros !! It certainly is a step -ladder for learners and those who didn't get through, need not fret. Crossowrds being so varied as they are, even the best of solvers have faced the same situation and had to eat crow !!
ReplyDeleteKeep attending the THCC Blog college regularly !!
To answer Navneeth
ReplyDeleteWhat the setter can do is enter RIVER in one slot.
If it is clue 6, put 6 for the def in every thematic clue.
More work for the setter! Also, solvers are put off by seeing too many 6's in the clues as they glance at them.
Using a non-number but different def for each instance also means more work. Is that necessary?
Sometimes, the thematic word may not have too many synonyms.
The best idea seems to be to omit def altogether and add stars to the thematic clues.
Question: Should a thematic crossword necessarily have an entry that gives a hint to the theme. E.g., RIVER in this cwd.
My personal preference is no mention of the theme in the puzzle as far as possible. I remember Buzzer's offering on the Friends theme which had no references to the TV Series in the clues - and I really liked that one.
DeleteBut I definitely agree that it would be impossible to that in such a crossword like this (with 12 names of rivers). I felt Sunnet had given fair definitions and mixed them up to keep it interesting (banker, river, flower etc).
The * way of doing things is my least preferred method.
Navneeth
ReplyDeleteI too wondered how 'creek' can lead to YAMUNA. You say it has been explained above. Where? I am not able to find it. Can anyone give a pointer?
I think he is referring to Sunnet's mention that he had given a correction for this clue, but that did not find its way into print. He had replaced creek by watercourse.
DeleteIn RameshJ's 1058
DeleteThanks, Kishore.
DeleteRaju wrote: "I can appreciate Sunnet's efforts to keep us regaled and doff my hat off for him "
ReplyDeleteRaju,don't! Please show your appreciation in some other way. Keep your hat on!