Congrats to the joint winners Maddy, Srivathsan and Raghunath and thanks to all who participated in CWE -2. A special thanks to CV for a stupendous analysis. Was away with guests for most of the day and came in late into the night (by my standards).
Ok, friends, Indians, Maddy and Srivathsan (Raghunath, I think, will not mind since he has cleverly opted out) , though I am not 'the' winner of the previous CWE (others' clues were better by far), if you don't mind, I shall foolhardily venture to stick my neck out and pick up the proverbial gauntlet or as our DIY-COW friends call it, the Albatross (as in The Rime of the Ancient Mariner), and carry it (or them?) till I pass it/them on to the person who earns it, in my h.o., though my reviews may not be as sound or detailed as CV's. The winner will surely empathise with Joy, coupled with a realisation of the daunting task ahead, when he encounters the Hindi words 'Haseen Dard' or the 'Delightful pain', which about describes the winner's state of mind.
The good word, continuing the trend of Indian words, that you need to tighten your belts with is CUMMERBUND. Please note that no other spelling variant of the given word is allowed. I am well known to have a rather high specific gravity at times, hence I request entrants to kindly give the full annotation, so that my denseness does not imperil their chances.
Finally, the fine print (it is perfectly fine if you want to print it):
(What follows is a cut, paste and edit from CWE -2): One entry per person in the Comments section. Note that once posted the entry cannot be edited. Nor do I expect you to delete an entry and repost an edited clue. So think well before posting your clue. You have a lot of time - the closing time for this CWE is Saturday, Oct 25, 23.59. Results may be posted post IXL submission on 26th.
The long duration is given so that more people can take part by using their spare time which may differ from person to person.
Finally, the winner may perhaps take on the mantle of conducting the next CWE at his/her own pace without being deterred by time constraints or work pressure.
Arriver said: Roll down the sash (10)
ReplyDeleteCUMMER (~comer) BUN (roll) D (as in crossword clue terminology)
Superbly clued. The master at work.
DeleteOf course! But he stole my roll from the bundobust! Boo-hoo !
DeleteI must confess I remembered and did!
DeleteThank God, I didn't remember CGB's clue.
DeleteGive me daily bun!
DeleteNot daily, but one of these days, as I'd planned it a couple of months back.
DeleteTbun=roll=bread. Hence, give my daily bread
DeleteThe problem with the Indian words that we have tried so far is that they offer few variations in the def part of the clue.
ReplyDeleteJIGARTHANDA at least had drink, refresher, cooler and so on.
BUNDOBUST was rather limited in synonyms.
So is this challenge.
Let's see how it goes.
Agree with the general import of what CV has said.The early bird, in this case CV, get the worm, of course. Other birds may have to echo CV or come up with more innovative (roundabout?) ways of defining .... I have full confidence that our friends are quite capable of it.
DeleteThe "dard" that you've asked us to endure through tightening of the 'cummerbund' is certainly not "Haseen", leave alone it being Joy;)
DeleteIf I may pop the question, what is the heroine referring to when she says "haseen dard"
DeleteI think Joy might have the answer
DeleteThis one seems to be even tougher than the earlier two.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Kishore. While 'cleverly opting out' I had also offered analyse a quarter of clues, provided the rest of these were to be shared among you three. Well you chose the 'braver' option. Like I wrote, if you feel the need of a 'fourth umpire' don't hesitate.
ReplyDeleteYou are welcome to carry a quarter gauntlet/albatross and even welcome unto half my kingdom, even if the other two winners do not submit their claims.
DeleteScottish girl and British University's new department head wear this round their waist (10)
ReplyDeleteWould this have changed if the vote was an Aye? ;-)
DeleteScottish girl - CUMMER as per BRB
DeleteBritish - B
University - U
New - N
Department head - D
Though I get the wordplay in Deepak's clue, I request all entrants, once again, to provide their anno, so that we do not get into a Pat and Murphy (and this may even involve a Paddy) crosstalk show
ReplyDeleteApproximately after commencement of the warmest season of the year, youngster wears new waistcloth(10)
ReplyDelete(C) (-S) ummer (BU (n) D)
Munched crumb and wiped half the chin before wearing the waist sash(10). Anagram
ReplyDeleteJust wondering whether the one in the avatar pic did this after having snatched the clothes item from a tourist (people have lost spectacles to these animals in Tirupati, I know).
ReplyDeleteWhen I went to Tirupathi I was rudely shocked and angered by the monkeys plucking flowers worn on the head of women and eating them!!! I saw notice boards warning women against wearing flowers on the head! The Andhra monkeys, besides, are definitely ugly -unlike their cute, intelligent-looking counterparts in TamilNadu and Karnataka which snatch only eatables from us- I enjoy hand-feeding the monkeys in our neighbouring Azakar malai. Have lots of photos feeding them! Once encouraged my small grandsons also to feed them.The 'ancestors' have bonded with me ever since I was a toddler from what my mom told me! No wonder CV got such ideas from my avatar! I still remember with amusement a comment by Kishore associating me with the pic! I usually put pictures of various flowers for my avatar in various sites. I don't remember what prompted me to pick this one for my gmail account!
DeleteAt Tirupati/Tirumala it is said that all flowers are meant for Perumal only and no other person shall wear the same.
DeleteI have heard this.
DeleteBut would a God be so selfish?
I think it is we humans who have such perverse ideas and impose unnatural restrictions. And I can't imagine a God sending these messengers to snatch flowers from unwary women.
God is a 'karunaik kadal' - ocean of mercy - and 'arulananadam' - joyous in blessing.
Restrict and repair Greek letter differently for waistband (10)
ReplyDeleteRestrict - Curb
repair - mend
Greek letter - Mu
differently - anind
Defn waistband - cummerbund
Seed of me and Rosie's initial alliance is wrapped around waist (10)
ReplyDeleteWrapped around Waist = Def
Seed = CUM
Me = Me
Rosie's initial = R
Alliance = Bund
I think the origin of the word CUMMERBUND may be from Hindi word कमरबन्द or कमरबाँध which means tie around waist.
ReplyDeleteYour thinking is right, that is the literal meaning in hindi
DeleteHalf of Cumin's merged with bits of bengalgram, urad, nutmeg and dill to form a band (10)
ReplyDeleteCUM(ins)MER(ged) with initial letters of Bengalgram, Urad, Nutmeg,Dill.
Well, it was certainly a daunting task that one had to review clues set by one’s peers or su-peer-iors, but then, drawing on my interaction with HMS Dauntless, I rolled up my sleeves, folded up my mundu, tightened my belt (cummerbund?) and got down to the task on hand. So here goes the first instalment (covering submissions upto the midnight that has just gone by):
ReplyDelete1. Chaturvasi
Arriver said: Roll down the sash (10)
CUMMER (~comer) BUN (roll) D (as in crossword clue terminology)
Short and sweet. The use of ‘roll down’ in conjunction with the sash makes for an excellent surface connection, leading one to believe that a reference is being made to a sash window. Reminded me of the days when car windows were actually rolled down using a rotating lever and not a button or two. Small doubt arose whether sash windows can be rolled down, but why not? The engineering brain is capable of doing that, I suppose. Another doubt was the use of D for Down was not found in the BRB or the Wikipedia list.This early bird entry from El Maestro may well take the cake. SHORTLIST
2. Deepak Gopinath
Scottish girl and British University's new department head wear this round their waist (10)
Scottish girl - CUMMER as per BRB, British – B,University – U,New – N,Department head - D
The Scottish girl = cummer equation was new to me, but that’s not a problem. I was pondering awhile whether there was something amiss with the grammar of the sentence(were two waists involved, hence two cummerbunds?), but finally felt that there was nothing wrong in that too. I was wondering too whether the capital U of University meant that there was a “British University”. Not in the UK, I find, but there is The British University in Dubai. The surface makes me feel that the sash is not the prescribed uniform, but something they wear anyhow. SHORTLIST
3. Ajeesh VM
Approximately after commencement of the warmest season of the year, youngster wears new waistcloth(10)
(C) (-S) ummer (BU (n) D)
Approximately=about=circa=C. Acceptable? Maybe. Youngster=BUD, but wears(=gets into) N ? Or does BUD consume (=takes in) N. The only time I take in something I wear is when I eat my hat. I am a bit confused here.
4. Pavalamani Pragasam
Munched crumb and wiped half the chin before wearing the waist sash(10). Anagram
Take1: Did not quite get the wordplay at first. Munched crumb=crumb*. Removing that from cummerbund, leaves me with meund to be achieved. Take 2: Munched crumb is the fodder, and half chin i.e. ch is wiped out from it leaving munedcrumb*=cummerbund. But then where is the anagram indicator? Extra words like before wearing in the surface have no place in the cryptic parsing.
5. Ram
DeleteRestrict and repair Greek letter differently for waistband (10)
Restrict – Curb,repair – mend,Greek letter – Mu,differently – anind,Defn waistband – cummerbund
The restrict leads to curb which becomes a part of the anagram fodder, similarly repair=mend which again adds to fodder as does the Greek letter Mu. An anagram fodder made out of 3 indirect references. Indirect anagram to the power of 3! First time I am seeing that I think. Not kosher, imo. And the surface? Repair Greek letter. How do you repair a Greek letter, if it is a missive or landlord? Possibly you can repair one if it is one of those loose alphabetical pieces you get in the market which can be used to compose names. But then how to restrict it and that too for a waistband?
6. Laxman
Seed of me and Rosie's initial alliance is wrapped around waist (10)
Wrapped around Waist = Def, Seed = CUM, Me = Me, Rosie's initial = R,Alliance = Bund
Come, come, my friend ! Was that alliance a dalliance? Friction of skin is no sin, I understand, but little kiddies frequent this show! The surface makes me feel that you have got old Rosie preggers and she has thus increased her waist girth. Bund from association or alliance seems fine. But how do you wrap the seed of you and Rosie’s initial alliance around waist? Though you seem to have included some deep action here, I would have liked more action on the surface. Of the clue, I mean. And in the cryptic parsing should the ‘is’ have become an ‘are’?
:-O
DeleteLol Kishore
DeleteI am certainly not lovely, but I have tried to be fair in the above.
DeleteA request: If any entrant feels that I have not parsed his/her entry correctly, please do leave an explanation and I shall add to the above.
"wear" in the sense of carry/exhibit/display (like in "She wears a smile" or "A ship wears its colours" (examples taken from thefreedic) ) might just work as a containment indicator
Deleteor perhaps wearing a hearing aid / pacemaker?
DeleteWearing a smile/colour is again on the surface, not inside. A hearing aid/pacemaker is probably a better example. As might be Cu-T.
DeleteThanks, Kishore! I am a kindergarten pupil and I wonder if I will ever learn the ABC of the art! But I never tire of trying! PP for persistentence and perseverance(and God forbid problematic person! lol)
DeletePretty pragmatic, I'd say. The first 4 letters of the second word match too!
DeleteI too am but a rookie trying to find my feet in this world of the giants who frequent this forum
DeleteI thought for a moment whether 'roll down the sash' was an operable operation.
ReplyDeleteI did some googling and found yes, there might be such a situation.
Note that the sentence is imperative - if that means the sentence is an
order/command/suggestion
by someone to someone else to do something.
So here is a modern dance act.
The graceful woman has a sash in her hand which she waves as she whirls round on the stage.
And sometimes these dancers throw what is in their hand and then after some sinuous movement pick it up as effortlessly as they threw it down in the first place.
Imagine the dancer throwing the sash (the cloth one, that is).
And a newcomer - a latecomer if you wish - stands up and shouts
"roll down the sash"
and expects the dancer to fall on the sash and roll on it from one end to the other.
Recently, I saw a dance performance by a US-returned Bharatanatyam exponent. Couldn't decide whether it was modern dance or the ancient form. For she held a strip of cloth and was waving it, swirling it, throwing it, picking it up - only she did not
roll down the sash.
I was polite enough not to suggest it but came home disappointed.
Sash / ribboned belt-like utility originally worn by men leading in Defence (10)
ReplyDeleteDefinition = sash
Anno: CUM ME(R B U)N D
"/" = CUM
"ribboned belt-like utility originally" = RBU (acrostic)
"worn by" = container (similar to Ajeesh's usage above)
"men" = MEN
"leading in Defence" = D
I have come across '/' being used for 'by' or 'or', but not 'cum'. Could you give me a link?
DeleteBut doesn't / denote cum?
DeleteIn some clinics, employees are fewer than the actual requirement. In offices in the past, we have had receptionist/typist. When a visitor steps in, she is the former; when there is none, she types out notes.
Happy Diwali to all.
Until 5-05 a.m., I did not hear a single psttasu vedi. Even now it is not as it used to be.
Perhaps When one says 'sofa cum bed' he could either use the 'sofa' or the 'bed' ... Thus sofa/bed ?
Deletehttp://www.thepunctuationguide.com/slash.html
DeleteThanks, CV, AS and MA. Now that / is both and and or, that is and=or, I am now officially in a Boolean paradox and there go my logic gates!
Deleteum,order number between 100 and 500 has a broad waistband (10)
ReplyDeleteC{um(merbun)*}d
order - anagrind number* = merbun
between - containment indictor
Married man essentially needs to be kept in check near a French Director's girdle (10)
ReplyDeleteMarried=M
Man=M
essentially(needs)=E
MME kept in CURB (~check)
near = connector
a French = UN
Director = D
CU (MM E) RB UN D
Am I too late for this Colonel, Kishore, others?? Sorry, if I am.
ReplyDeleteThe closing time for this CWE is Saturday, Oct 25, 23.59.
DeleteTime irikku Bruno
DeleteThanks Rain... Hows the rain there? Am worried...
ReplyDeleteEnge ?
DeleteIn bangalore it was nice . In chennai it's okay ;-) I mean weather
DeleteHip band of heavy metal, nears a million. Queen, on a roll with the last record
ReplyDeleteHip band - Def
Heavy metal - Copper (Cu)
Million - MM
Queen - ER
Roll - Bun
The last record - D
Comment meant to go here
DeleteThis is an excellent idea but the punctuation chosen bothers me
ReplyDeleteMr Munde’s cub proved no son is needed to get sash (10)
ReplyDelete(MR MUNDEs CUB)*
anind = proved
deletion indicator = no 's'on is needed
definition = sash
Triggered, of course, by recent election results. (A "victory sash" is normally worn over one shoulder and is therefore not a cummerbund, but since sash by itself is enough as the definition I decided to let it be.)
Coimbatore's leading Muslim determined to discard old waist band (10)
ReplyDeleteC UMMER B(-O)UND
7. Sreeni
ReplyDeleteHalf of Cumin's merged with bits of bengalgram, urad, nutmeg and dill to form a band (10)
CUM(ins)MER(ged) with initial letters of Bengalgram, Urad, Nutmeg,Dill.
Semi acrostic wordplay. After to semi-words. A nice recipe in the making. For Khichdi? But how does is form a band on the surface. Musical instruments could have formed a musical band. What band do these ingredients make ...
8. Mohsin
Sash / ribboned belt-like utility originally worn by men leading in Defence (10)
Nice surface. Though the intended anno was quite clear, I was initially a bit confused about the /=cum part. Now that that is cleared up, this goes into my shopping cart too. SHORTLIST (on hold as I am yet not fully convinced about the wearing bit as in AVM’s clue. Waiting for expert help on this.)
9. Vikram
um,order number between 100 and 500 has a broad waistband (10)
um, the wordplay is quite clear, but I am not so sure about the surface. Is it referring to some clothing order number which has a design with a broad waistband? But then, there are many numbers in the range, which leaves me, um, a bit hesitant.
10. Balaji
Married man essentially needs to be kept in check near a French Director's girdle (10)
Good wordplay, naughty surface! What is that guy doing near the FD’s girdle? How do you keep someone in check near a girdle?
11. Sowmya
Hip band of heavy metal, nears a million. Queen, on a roll with the last record
Good variation for the defn. Heavy is superfluous, I think, though Copper, as per Wikimama, is listed under Heavy Metals. A million=MM? Again ‘a’ is superfluous. Million can be M and millions can be MM, but then I thought a million is a thousand thousand so MM should be fine. In second leg, again the ‘a’ is a bit intrusive. Last record is a good touch. But I am not sure if I understand what the surface is trying to convey.
12. Abhay
Mr Munde’s cub proved no son is needed to get sash (10)
Good anagram discovery to match with topical surface. However, I am not very sold on ‘proved’ as an anind.
CGB, your clue will be in the next half-dozen.
"To prove" is "to test". I am not clear what the problem is with it as an anind.
DeleteThe surface read is - newspaper headlines after Queen, a fashionable heavy metal band released their last record, that the sales is nearing a million and that they are on a roll! (sorry, a lot of imagination is required for my surface story:):)
DeleteOn "worn by," thought I'd throw my 2 cents in - well not that i'm an "expert" or something ;)
DeleteIf something's "worn by" somebody, the one that's worn goes outside/ covers the one wearing it. Not sure if there's any context in which it's the other way around. However, would like to see what others gotta say.
I am with VJ on the "wear" issue: if X wears Y, then Y is on the outside (e.g., man wears a coat, woman wear a hat). Even when "wear" is being used in the sense of exhibit/present (e.g., wear a pained look) it would still be something seen on the outside. I can't think of a context in which that which is worn would be inside the "wearer".
DeleteI believe that is what I said someday somewhere.
DeleteAbhay, re your last sentence, Kishore gives some examples of that, including a personal proper-T..
This band's bound to entertain the centre with DJ (10)
ReplyDeleteA CD ish take if I may ...
DJ - Dinner Jacket
bound - tied
to entertain - to go around ( as in 'accommodate' )
centre - waist
Cummerbunds are said to be worn with dinner jackets according to the dictionaries ...
sorry for the earlier deletion.. a word had gone missed ..
This is lovely
DeleteI can read this in two ways
But is DJ = dinner jacket ?
Thanks ...
DeleteAnd http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/dj?showCookiePolicy=true
Also this
Deletehttp://www.chambers.co.uk/search.php?query=DJ&title=21st
CUMMERBUND: Member without energy, gets to chew the cud; audibly goes to waste,
ReplyDeleteWith maiden shifting burden to the binder in the middle (10)
ReplyDeleteWith = Cum
Maiden = M
Shifting = Angrind
Burden* = erbund
to = Connector
the binder in the middle = Defn = Cummerbund
CUMMERBUND: My annotation (Annoyance?)
ReplyDeleteCUD +Chewed by MEMB(-EN for energy)ER- goes to WASTE (homophone for WAIST ) A cummerbund goes to the waist )
ODDIYANAM: any one to clue this ? I was intending to !)
Band playing music, is belting out new number on Radio Central (10)
ReplyDeleteMUSIC* (playing = anagrind)
IS* (belting = anagrind)
'is' out = MUSIC* - IS* = CUM*.
NUMBER* (New = anagrind) = MERBUN*
D= raDio (central)
Def= Band = CUM* MERBUN* D
nice
Delete+2
DeleteIf Kishore permits, it's a Down clue.
DeleteWhy not? The moment I read the clue, I knew it is a downer - though it may stand up till the end of the competition.
Delete:)
DeleteLovely clue! Kudos to Raghunath.
DeleteLast Sunday THC everyman also had A on B for AB in an across clue ..
Delete11 Article on daily crime (5) THEFT
That takes the cake from my side unless something better comes in by Saturday
DeleteThe Phantom creates the perfect clue....old jungle saying
DeleteClues for a given word, however cleverly written, lose their lustre against one that masks the definition cleverly. Here the surface is out-and-out musical but the word required is a clothes item. It can sit well in any crossword.
ReplyDeleteFor this CWE, as long as it lasts, we should stick with Indian words in English, which are seen but rarely in UK crosswords.
Raju's suggestion won't be in any English dictionary, not even one of Indian words in English.
For it is a Tamil term. He might well point out to me that JIGARTHANDA too is of the same category. But then that was sparked by AD's Madurai thematic.
ODDIYANAM : I as just to give this for CUMMERBIND - but then, our pundits will get on my case saying that it is not a cryptic clue and a Tamil word. I reckon, in this day and age, Google is giggling away and ahead of all the dicts and thesauri. I found this from the Google and did a jig !! Hernce, I asked some one to parse this !!
DeleteIf Jigarthanda is good enough for the goose, why not ODDIYANAM for the gander?
Giving it a shot, anyway. (Down clue, experimental indicator)
DeleteAccessory in the South encrusted with a diamond design (9)
ODDI(Y)ANAM
"Accessory in the south" = Y (last letter of accessory; akin to "X, at the end")
"encrusted with" = containment indicator
"a diamond design" = anagram of A DIAMOND = ODDIANAM
Wear this at a festival in God's own country holding a little delicate Indian lamp (9) {O{D}{DIYA}NAM}
DeleteBoth clues are very nice and IMO &lits. (assuming it's worn during onam). In Mohsin's clue 'design' is not an anagrind when it follows 'a diamond'. Should be 'engineered' or it should precede the fodder (speaking from experience of having had that pointed out in a THC clue).
DeleteA mini-contest in a contest ;-)
DeleteDesign can go after the word when taken as a noun ...
DeleteOmani daddy's upset on daughter walking away with jewellery (9)
DeleteJewellery - Def
OMANIDADDY - anag fodder
upset - anagrind
D - Daughter
Walking away - deletion indicator
Raghu, I don't see a problem in Mohsin's clue. As I see it, it's like "the wordplay components design a solution with something inside." If this is so, we have, A + DIAMOND design a product (ODDYANAM) with Y inside
DeleteExcellent, but one is 'upset with' or 'upset about' something.
DeleteIs 'upset on' idiomatic?
Agreed. 'At' could have been better in that place and acceptable to. Didn't use 'with' as it was appearing immediately again.
Delete@Raghunath: As Aakash pointed out, I meant "design", the noun. Not the verb.
DeletePondicherry region goes after not even one ornament (9)
Delete1. RU said he was intending to write a clue for this.
We have come out with our tries. Now he should!!!
2. Next he might suggest CUMMER CUT or JAVVU MITTAI.
Would it be fair play?
Words like these incl the O-word are okay for exercises like these, but may not be appropriate if they found a place in English crosswords. First off, we don't have standard spellings documented and they are too region-specific. So most people may find these unfair
DeleteBand with rock number on billboard's #9 (10)
ReplyDeleteCUM + NUMBER* + D
I take part in a couple of CWCs. In one, the entries by others cannot be seen by competitors until they are put up for voting by the moderator - when you can see all.
ReplyDeleteIn another, the entries of others can be seen even as you write your own - all these are assessed by the moderator.
In message boards such as Yahoo groups and later Google groups there have been CWCs in which you needed to send your entry in a private email to the moderator who will, after the deadline has passed, list all before they are put out to vote or judged by the moderator.
In a Google group some years ago, I started a weekly comp I called SCWC - Simple Clue-Writing Competition - when some other contests were waning. I take credit for stipulating that in this the entries would be visible to all readers - a feature that the members liked. I am glad to say that SCWC is still going strong though I do not visit that group as frequently as I used to do.
I was going to add (I forgot) that in these competitions where the entries are visible, we readers have our own pleasure not only of savouring the clues but also assessing them in our own way and as per our own acquired knowledge and self-imposed rules or both - you know which one will fall by the wayside, which one is so-so and which one stands a fair chance of winning.
ReplyDeleteIn case the entries are seen, and the answer is one that is often used in puzzles, there's a chance of a couple of clues being almost similar. In the other case like you wrote apart from appreciating the other clues, we would have to be more creative to find another way to write the clue.
ReplyDeleteHoliday Special at 8:30 by Rainmon
ReplyDeleteBand's CD features bald singer bellowing Urdu numbers (top singles) (9)
ReplyDeleteAh - I didn't get the anno as I read the clue but once I wrote the given word on paper and stared at it with some fingering to separate the components, I saw light.
DeleteSorry , my mistake .. Kishore has specifically asked for Anno. Will do so now
DeleteBand - Def
DeleteCD - Outer word
Features - Container indicator
Bald Singer - (H) UMMER
Bellowing Urdu Numbers ( top singles ) - BUN
Asking for an anno was mainly to get at what the setter intended, so that I do not run away on a tangent with a misinterpretation ...
DeleteYes, As I said the anno was not apparent to me as I read the clue.
DeleteBut give the clue a thought and the anno becomes clear.
That is because the components are handled pretty neatly.
Clue-writing gets a lift when the broken up bits get proper treatment.
That is where the expertise comes.
Without naming names, I would not have been able to figure out some annos, if not given, for reasons that vary from my ineptitude to ...
Delete
ReplyDelete13. C.G. BHARGAV
Coimbatore's leading Muslim determined to discard old waist band (10)
Coimbatore’s leading=C. Ok. Determined to discard old = bound-o, sound nice. But Muslim=ummer is a bit which is wide open. I personally feel a clue giving a wide open canvas for guessing names is a bit unfair. When the name is used as a light, the wordplay leads to it. But when it is used as a part of wordplay, like using boy/girl in clues for any of a large number of possibilities. In such cases, I think it would be fairer to give a name in the clue, given that one may have rather outlandish (at least from our perspective) like Nkrumah, Ng etc.
14. Aakash Sridhar
This band's bound to entertain the centre with DJ (10)
CD- ish as AS himself says. As in CDs, no wordplay exists. Not terribly interesting, imo.
15. Raju Umamaheswar
Member without energy, gets to chew the cud; audibly goes to waste,
I’m a bit confused here. I will overlook the absence of the enu as a mere technicality and give RU the benefit of doubt. Why the comma at the end? How does CUD go around the balance? How is EN removed from MEMBER when N is not in MEMBER? How does one get the N that is in cummerbund? Is there a principal defn. Or are both defn.s subsidiary?
16. Raghunath
Band playing music, is belting out new number on Radio Central (10)
A real beaut! The real reason why Raghu wanted to be on the other side of the table – he can dish them out. As already judged by the multitude, this is definitely a strong contender a slice of the cake, if not the cake itself. SHORTLIST
17. VJ
Band with rock number on billboard's #9 (10)
I love this one too. Everything is in it’s place. Without further ado, SHORTLIST
18. Shrikanth
Band's CD features bald singer bellowing Urdu numbers (top singles) (9)
Another beautiful surface, using the parantheses. (Aside: For a moment, I was transported to Vizag, where a friend was belting out Urdu numbers) SHORTLIST
Well ... I was going for a different take .. Aren't CDs welcome ?...
DeleteThey are, but this one did not turn me on.
DeleteThanks ... Got to rush to office now..late.. Sigh
DeleteWe won't accept Muslim for UMMER but we will accept man = Tom, boy/young boy = Al, Ed.
ReplyDeletegirl = Anna, young girl = Di, princess = Di (as if there is one and only princess on the face of this earth.
What attitude is this? I am not saying 'colonial'.
I don't like girl for Mala either, nor man=Tom. Edward becoming Ed is ok for me, but not boy=Ed.
DeleteWhat attitude is this? I am not saying 'colonial'.
DeleteNot colonial. Misanthrope.
We usually accept Princess for Di because of past convention. She is probably the most famous in that category. Anne could as well fit as could Leia, who by the way was out of this world. We use English references because it is an English puzzle. Don't we add 'Indian' when we shift reference? When we have a multitude of names from across the world, I personally feel using boy or girl or man or woman (alphabetical order used, before anybody feels that there's some bias here), to bring in a name as part of the wordplay is not very correct, though many setters have used it in the past.
DeleteBangalore locality's king has no ambition at first (9)
Clues like the above could only be attempted to be justified post facto, not up front. If Bangalore is dropped, it could turn out to be unsolveable with thousands of localities around the world.
DeleteAlso 'Ummer' may be an unusual spelling.
DeleteI think it is all a question of individual tolerance.
I see your point but only if we throw questions and read discussiond do we enhance our skills.
You have put it very correctly. All of us learn from this.
DeleteThe same also applies, imo, to other general categoties, like say, fish. Ling, tuna and cod are generally accepted, but Rohu and Catla might not be. I understanf there about 4000 odd fish names, less than human names, but still a large number
DeleteRamesh's clue missed out. Next batch!
ReplyDeleteWrt to PP's comment: I still remember with amusement a comment by Kishore associating me with the pic!
ReplyDeleteThanks, maam. But I have always wondered why you use my picture as your avatar
Kindred spirit!
DeleteKishore's comments under 15 above on my cluing. I did post my enunciation later.
ReplyDeleteThe comma at the end is a typo that had managed to wriggle in !
EN for energy Cud and chewing go together. Member anagrammed minus E with EN and CUD to cuddle them in !!
I'm not COMPETING byut merely contesting !!
Glad to see the mini contest responded to ! Goose and Gander are dancing together !
Cummerbund has 2 Us, but CUD only accounts for 1.
DeleteAlso, "member without energy" = MEMBER - E. So, how does EN come into the picture? Or is 'energy' doing double duty, once to remove E and once to add EN?
Loss of karat makes million buck under worn out sash (10)
ReplyDeleteKara = K
Million = MM
worn out = anagram indicator
Loss of = deletion indicator
waistband = definition
MM buck under* -> anagram fodder from which K is deleted
In the above definition read waistband as sash
DeleteI can understand
ReplyDeletem - million; millions - as in $1m, $5m
mm- millimetre(s) - as in 1mm, 5mm
How is
mm- million
Two clue-writers have used this abbr. Where is mm = million?
I rationalised this as
DeleteA million is a thousand thousand, ie a M.M
1000=M
1000x1000=M.M. (Dot product)
Mind you, this is not standard usage, but attempt to rationally justify the usage.
In hydrocarbon industries MM is widely used. e.g. 5 MMSCMD means 5 million standard cubic meter per day.
DeleteI find that as per http://www.acronymfinder.com/Million-Metric-Standard-Cubic-Meter-Per-Day-(MMSCMD).html, the second m stands for metric, though as per http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_standard_cubic_feet_per_day, there is a MMSCFD, where MM stands for million.
DeleteWasn't usage of a part of an abbreviation was frowned upon in this forum when D for doctor was illustrated with MD, PhD, etc.?
DeleteNot only on this forum but also in UK forums, an abbr must stand on its own legs.
DeleteBut this seems ridiculous.
An example off the top of my operated-upon head:
HoD - Head of the Department
Yet don't clue-writers use h for head and d for department?
Where do these abbreviations stand alone?
Alll ye-guys have put me in a strait-jacket !! A cummerbund? I'm more with Kishore: Aam khaane me matlab hai-- Gutlese kya kaam?
ReplyDeleteLet's be serious.
DeleteMany readers here pointed out that Raju's clue doesn't lead to the answer.
They have not said it offhand - they have also pointed out the problems.
If still we're told that we should eat and enjoy the mango and not go to its core - my Hindi is poor, if that is what those Hindi words mean - I am sorry I can't agree.
If a clue is bad, it is bad. Period.
And I am talking about the clue - not the writer.
"A good clue needs little explanation"
Delete- Would this be true always? Or would the following be?
"A good clue needs little explanation from the clue-writer"
Charlie the percussionist forced to give up broken rod for the band (10)
ReplyDeleteAnno:
Charlie = C
the percussionist = DRUMMER
forced = BOUND
to give up = indicates dropping letters
broken rod = indicates ROD* needs to be dropped
the band = definition
C + DRUMMER + BOUND - ROD* = CUMMERBUND (the band = def)
Attempted story of a drummer who had to give up his favourite but broken drum-stick (rod used to mean the drummer's stick) to get accepted by the band :)
Good one Ramki
DeleteThese clues where the clue-writers exploit another sense of 'band' are certainly off-beat. And when the thought process is executed neatly in working out the broken bits and when the grammar is correct, the task is finished.
DeleteIn clue-writing, the def part might be in one part of speech in surface reading but quite another as word reqd. (Is this clear enough?)
DeleteNow, can the entire surface reading of a clue put the def in a different sense altogether when as word required it means quite another? (Is this clear enough?)
Responses invited.
For abbrs. in crossword clues, should we insist that a particular dict or some particular dictionaries (Chambers, Oxford, Collins) have them as entries or wide usage would do.
ReplyDeleteThe notorious long list floating around the Internet includes many that we would not accept readily.
I have access to only Chambers and the list available in crosswordunclued and hence I'd be inclined to favour only these. I have never referred to Oxford or Collins. Is Chambers the gold standard for dics?
DeleteAbbreviations appearing even in some of the standard dictionaries, like Chambers, may not be popular everywhere. As I see it, RE for soldiers or RA for artists should have no place in crosswords appearing in our country. These are too British-centric and a common man in India may not be aware of such usages. So it'd be better if the setter uses some kinda discretion when referring to dictionaries for abbreviations
DeleteA cryptic clue, I feel, should be fair to any newcomer, who might not be familiar with some standard cliched crossword abbreviations. With the help of basic or advanced vocabulary, general knowledge and logic, one should be able to arrive at his/ her answers - and not by memorizing some list which has no relevance outside the crossword world.
Even the 'Chambers XWD A Dictionary of crossword abbreviations' that I got shipped through Amazon ( not available in India ) , there are many abbreviations that I have not seen in usage. Also some of the most common ones that are used here, do not find a place in that dictionary.
DeleteAs far as the long list is concerned, earlier I was using a list compiled by Ross Beresford which was posted in a forum. And now, Ross is a well known figure. Sympathy is his product.
While what VJ says is absolutely agreeable, it is not always possible by logical deduction alone according to me.
I wonder which abbreviations are be fair to newcomers? Ph = Philosophy as used in the degree and A = arts, M = Medicine, I = investigation from CID or FBI? I think it would be difficult to write a set of about 25- 30 clues without resorting to some standard dic. Part of the skill in writing a clue is to use as few abbreviations as possible, but doing away with some standard dic's list is to curtail the setter's freedom.
DeleteWhile we of course need to refer any of the standard dictionaries available, as I see it, it's nicer to stay away from some so-called "standard" yet obscure and uncommon abbreviations. In a hurry to get the clue writing done, setter might be tempted to use some crossword-oriented abbreviations looking at the word breakup (like T for model or ER for queen), but if a little thought is put in, he/ she might be able to get above it and find another route.
DeleteWhat's obscure and uncommon may be a little subjective to define, but opting for the well-laid-out/ popular ones and avoiding the iffy ones even if there's a slightest of doubt, would be most appreciated.
Yes, XWD contains abbrs. that we sometimes question.
ReplyDeleteXWD includes abbrs. that are normally used in advanced cryptics (such as Mephisto, Genius, Azed barred) but not in 'standard blocked' published in mainsream newspapers.
As for that long list on the Net, it may have started off with Ross' list but I suspect it was subsequently augmented by all and sundry.
Tie at the waist - or chew the cud with large number
ReplyDeleteIs this any entry for the CWE? If so, please give anno
DeleteAlso the enu, I suppose.
DeleteNo clue is considered complete w/o the enu - even when the answer is given already as in this CWE.
Apologies
DeleteThe annotation - CU{M NUMBER*}D M = Large, NUMBER within CUD - Tie at the waist - CUMMERBUND
Apologies for the extra y that seems to have got attached to an in above.
DeleteSUMMER CAPITAL IS CHANGED TO THE FIRST CITY BESIDES THE DYKE TO SET UP AN APPAREL BAND (10)
ReplyDeleteSUMMER CAPITAL IS CHANGED TO THE FIRST CITY = C{S}UMMER
Dyke = BUND
Apparel Band + Definition
Apparel Band = Definition
DeleteScottish girl friend spent 500 yen to bed nightclub's top DJ's partner? (10)
ReplyDelete(CUMMER)(BU(N)D(-dy))
Scottish girl - Cummer
friend - Buddy
spent - deletion indicator
500 yen - D Y
to bed - inserticator
Nightclub's top - N
DJ's partner? - defn - DJ - dinner Jacket ( Chambers) , question mark to make up (hopefully) for the oblique defn.
Notes -
1. I confess that I didn't know Cummer = Scottish girl, so thanks to Col for that...does that disqualify me?
2. The gap between girl and friend is deliberate 'coz I didn't want to be accused of being Unxiemanian, whatever that means. The comments section of this blog (from comment No. 15) makes interesting reading in this regard. My views on this are not as militant as some expressed here though,
http://www.fifteensquared.net/2014/07/17/guarduan-26314-boatman/
I did wonder if use of girl friend in the same context as girlfriend is correct - apparently it is with slightly different import...quoting from Wikipedia..
"Both forms of "girlfriend" and "girl friend" are used by different people to mean different things. For example, when the term "girlfriend" is used by a girl or woman about another female in a non-sexual, non-romantic context, the two-word form "girl friend" is sometimes used to avoid confusion with the sexual or romantic meaning; however, this is not a rule. "
3. First draft of my clue read "Scottish girl friend tucked in new sash". But though bud for friend is used casually, I couldn't find it in any published dict. ( other than online ones of course). so this convoluted second version...anyways a little smut never hurt anyone.
Excuse me, I suppose she spent the money on a visit to the beauty parlour, new clothes, new accessories, luxury car, posh hotel room and such-like.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have heard and read, it's usually the man who leaves money on the dressing table as he leaves.
I imagine the DJ is a woman. Also that her partner is a man.
Any suggestions as to how we can stop these thoughts?
Commander Bond eliminates and casually exchanges spectacles for double trap belt (10)
ReplyDeleteCOMMandER BOND with spectacles OO replaced with double trap UU
Defn: belt CUMMERBUND
It just struck me. How many answers contain the word, Waist, Sash or band in these submissions. Comments only on this aspect but on on my opinion, which is strictly personal.
ReplyDeleteI hope I am still on time-
ReplyDeleteDn.clue
Masters follow police with hesitation on a dike,will they get a sash? (10)
Sorry, I did not give the anno. Just saw K's request.
ReplyDeleteCopper- Cu
Masters- MM ( as in Master of arts etc. as recently explained by CV0
Hesitation- er
Dike- Bund
Sash- Daf.
(Cu) (MM) (ER) (BUND)
Surface is my problem. Not all that great. Anyway, I did not want to miss an opportunity.Thank you.
Typo-
ReplyDeleteIt should be (CV)
19. RameshJ
ReplyDeleteWith maiden shifting burden to the binder in the middle (10)
New defn. Good wordplay and surface, though I felt ‘with’ was bit odd in the surface reading. SHORTLIST for the moment.
20. Rengaswamy
Loss of karat makes million buck under worn out sash (10)
Wordplay was ok with the same reservation of million=MM made earlier. In the surface, is the reference to Karat the politician? No, I suppose, as there is no capitalisation (or is it that communists cant be capitalised?).Is it reference to the unit of purity? Wouldn’t buck have to be in plural, if million? Not exactly sure what the surface means.
21. Ramki Krishnan
Charlie the percussionist forced to give up broken rod for the band (10)
Novel treatment of both wordplay components and surface. SHORTLIST
22. Eswarann
Tie at the waist - or chew the cud with large number (10)
Enu added. Components/wp treated well. However, surface not clear.
23. VIM
SUMMER CAPITAL IS CHANGED TO THE FIRST CITY BESIDES THE DYKE TO SET UP AN APPAREL BAND (10)
The caps threw me at first. I wondered if there was some meaning in it. The wordplay seems ok, while the surface reeks of crony capitalism – capital is being shifted to set up an apparel unit? Oh no, an apparel band ! Though it works as an acceptable defn., the surface goes for a toss with the last word, imo. BTW, first time I am seeing this handle here, I think. Welcome.
24. Maddy
Scottish girl friend spent 500 yen to bed nightclub's top DJ's partner? (10)
Another beaut, that too with just the right amount of spice, imo. A veritable challenger to the Phantom. SHORTLIST
25. Nadathur Rajan
Commander Bond eliminates and casually exchanges spectacles for double trap belt (10)
When I proposed Cummerbund, Commander Bond was what I had in mind as a starting point. Thanks, NR, for introducing that motif. Double trap for UU in word play was new to be, but if OO can be specs, UU certainly can be double trap. But I was not sure what a double trap belt (in the surface) is ... . A belt you wear when shooting double trap?
26. Padmanabhan
Masters follow police with hesitation on a dike,will they get a sash? (10)
Word play is fine, but as Paddy himself admits, the surface is not what he would expect.
Spectacles for OO and trap for U are accepted indicators:
Deletehttp://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~mark/random/indicators/
Yes, you scored the bull's eye. I had meant it as a belt worn while shooting double trap.
I was trying to picture copper taking away the sash and masters following him to get it back. Probably 'the sash' might have been better? As I said I have difficulty in getting good surface reading. thank you for the comments- in spite of my belated submission.
DeleteThank you for considering my belated submission. I was imagining masters following a cop who is taking away the sash and their attempt to get it back. As I said I find it difficult to get good surface reading.
Delete26 entries at the close of business hours. Not bad at all. Thanks all for participating. Here are names of the guys who can chew on their fingernails, if are so inclined, till further notice:
ReplyDelete1. Chaturvasi
Arriver said: Roll down the sash (10)
2. Deepak Gopinath
Scottish girl and British University's new department head wear this round their waist (10)
3. Mohsin
Sash / ribboned belt-like utility originally worn by men leading in Defence (10)
4. Raghunath
Band playing music, is belting out new number on Radio Central (10)
5. VJ
Band with rock number on billboard's #9 (10)
6. Shrikanth
Band's CD features bald singer bellowing Urdu numbers (top singles) (9)
7. RameshJ
With maiden shifting burden to the binder in the middle (10)
8. Ramki Krishnan
Charlie the percussionist forced to give up broken rod for the band (10)
9. Maddy
Scottish girl friend spent 500 yen to bed nightclub's top DJ's partner? (10)
Well, a difficult judgement coming up here. But here goes:
ReplyDeleteB: 5
S: 4. This one was a tough one to beat, as many of you noted
G: 9 but I think the extra zing saw this one at the top of the pile (bottoms up here!)
So, Maddy draws the short straw. I had every confidence that I would not cop it in the future and hence thought of sticking my head out. Viva la guillotine !
Congrats Maddy,Raghu &VJ ( and this time in that order).
ReplyDeleteThanks Kishore for the wonderful commentary
Congrats B, S and G winners
ReplyDeleteCongrats to the top 3. Do they individually/ severally take on the next round?
ReplyDeleteAs reported, Maddy draws the short straw unless he passes it on to Raghu, unless he too passes it on to VJ...
DeleteWell, if VJ too passes it, I propose your name, Paddy.
The buck does not stop here!
ReplyDeleteI do not know about the buck, but other than PP's participation, this has been a stag party
DeleteThough VIM is not yet sexed
DeleteVIM?
DeleteNo 'Doe' (Dough)? Purely for pleasure.
VIM is the capitalist who was no.23 in the long list of participants...
DeleteYeah! Very Important Member, (using capitals.)
DeleteNot so fast Kishore - Check again:)
DeleteBTW, "The buck stops here" is a clue in today's TOI. It is a 6 letter word. _ _ _ R_N. If you can help me I will be happy!
ReplyDeleteWarren? (From rabbit) and ornate for 22 D
DeleteCongrats to Maddy, Raghu & VJ; Hilarious but very analytical assesment by K.
ReplyDeleteMaddy is picking up the gauntlet
ReplyDeleteGreat!
ReplyDeleteawaiting the next word.
Congrats to a deserving G and B. Kudos to the referee for a crisp and witty analysis. Now you know why I eye the silver, so as to not pick up the gauntlet ;-).
ReplyDeleteIt must have escaped Kishore's eagle eyes. Positions 5,4 and 9. Don't they add up?
DeletePray, why would I use numbers instead of names ... Little escapes the P.
DeleteI would never have noticed had you not used them.
DeleteThanks Kishore for the excellent judging. This does bring some cheer on a day when a typo in today's round has effectively finished my chances of making the finals of IXL.
ReplyDeleteThere were come excellent clues this week and my congrats to all specially Raghu and VJ. Will come up with the new word and rules in a while.
I too have committed several typos in this year's IXL. In Round6, one letter was wrong VICE had been typed as VIEE which brought me 40 marks. So about 60 persons must have completed without error.
DeleteAll the best, Maddy. Raghu is not only clever but also wise. I think me preamble should have used wise instead of clever!
Maddy, you escaped last week, but this time I have 'fixed' you. ;-)
DeleteThe timing suits me since I am off from work for my sis-in-law's marriage this week. So I will manage some time in between the events, hopefully the Missus would be too busy to notice.
DeleteCWE-4 will be live in some time...let the count down begin . I wonder if our resident rocket scientist will have an edge in this, not that he needs any
What might be the upshot of all this, I wonder.
DeleteCongrats winners
ReplyDeleteMaddy's CWE-4 will be launched at 7:30 AM on Monday 27 Oct
ReplyDeleteHas any blogpost crossed the 200 mark since the blog started? CWE 3 seems to be close enough to that landmark.
ReplyDeleteI don't think so
DeleteHere you go ;-)
Delete