Too many CD's & E's today making it too easy, except for 23A where I am stumped unless 21D is wrong
ACROSS
1 - He seeks to be heard again at court (9) - APPELLANT [CD]
5 - He wrote stories for English soap production (5) - A{E}SOP*
8 - Money and time wasted on the earliest form of a word (6) - E{T}YMON*
9 - Symbol of Nazism (8) - SWASTIKA [E]
11 - Area south of Houston Street in New York, an area well-known to Londoners (4) - SOHO [DD]
12 - Shorten a manuscript to ms (10) - ABBREVIATE [E]
14 - A learner not trained in relating to voice quality (5) - {TON*}{A}{L}
15 - Wooded areas where heads of Foreign Office relax, ending stress (7) - {FO}{REST}{S}
16 - Make a forecast (7) - PREDICT [E]
17 - Man trained to detect cavities within (5) - ANTRA [T]
19 - Argentine leader, first to escape in an African republic, was guarded by an escort (10) - CHA{PERON}{E}D
20 - Plant identified by some perpendicular umbels (4) - ARUM [T]
22 - Delivered in doses, like TV serials (8) - EPISODIC [CD]
23 - Plan, Indian style (6) - ?O?A?A (Addendum - YOJANA [E] - Thanks to Richard)
24 - Locations for spectacles, say (5) - SITES (~sights)
25 - Passing art, tennis playing (9) - TRANSIENT*
DOWN
1 - Command on parade ground from a person who annoys (2,4) - {A}{T EASE}
2 - Crazy person meets one who gives treatment, a healer of the mind (15) - {PSYCHO}{THERAPIST}
3 - Cloth-maker (4) - LOOM [E]
4 - Biblical ‘height’ of confusion (5,2,5) - TOWER OF BABEL [CD]
5 - State solemnly to Alcoholics Anonymous: Eve rests but fitfully (10) - ASSEVERATE*
6 - Way to go up with a twist, or twists (6,9) - SPIRAL STAIRCASE [E]
7 - Appeals to the highest authority (7) - PRAYERS [E]
10 - One who wants to put an end to a practice comes to a boil: it is not funny (12) - ABOLITIONIST*
13 - Home-grown, not imported (10) - INDIGENOUS [E]
16 - Targets for a ‘picky’ thief (7) - POCKETS [CD]
18 - Give information about a significant skill (6) - {IMP}{ART}
21 - Policemen seize leader of strikers (4) - {COP}{S}
GRID
yojana
23A - Plan, Indian style (6) - ?O?A?A
ReplyDeleteIt's YOJANA.
Richard
Hi Richard,
ReplyDeleteGood one there, I would never had thought of that
Colonel, just like your general view on Sankalak creations, it was a smooth puzzle and an enjoyable one as well.
ReplyDeleteThe clues I liked: 12A, 22A, 4D, 6D, 7D and 16 D.
In spite of having been a student of Etymology and the anagram hint, I took some time to get ETYMON, which was long forgotten.
While on 23A, I was an avid reader of an interesting periodical called YOJANA during my college days. It was being brought out by the Planning Commission, Yojana Bhavan, New Delhi. Wonder if it is still coming out.
Richard
Of what use are words like these in an "English" crossword ? Even if yojana is an accepted word in English, aren't there better words that could have fit there ? Eg : SONATA. I wish at least they tell us how to construct the word !
ReplyDelete@ Bhavan
ReplyDeleteMaybe the compiler thought that a word like SONATA would be a giveaway and so wanted to trick us into some deep exercise.
Richard
@Bhavan,
ReplyDeleteBeing an 'English' crossword in India I don't see any harm in some of the words with an Indian flavour creeping in. Notwithstanding that,this is one of the problems with CD's, and DD's and the main reason why I don't like them
@ Richard, that's my point. The exercise is that of finding a english-hindi/sanskrit dictionary because howmuchever I would have thought about it, yojana wouldn't have occured to me. Which is why I would have preferred the compiler giving me a way to build that word.
ReplyDelete@Colonel, I don't mind the CDs and DDs. My only beef in this case is its binary. Either you knew the word or didn't. There is no thinking involved.
That is precisely what I mean by E, CD and DD, either you know the word or you do not
ReplyDeleteI did not enjoy today's crossword. Too many non-cryptic clues,which I feel should not find a place in a cryptic crossword. Examples are 1A, 11A, 23A and 3D
ReplyDeleteFriends,
ReplyDeleteYou are all entitled to your views and like you I may perhaps record mine.
You will be surprised to learn that though I did not solve this puz at all but merely looked at the clues when YOJANA struck me - without any crossing.
As I was going to say but as the assiduous Richard has anticipated me, along with that the term YOJANA BHAVAN too occurred to me.
This used to appear frequently in the papers and though I know neither Hindi nor Sanskrit, I have this habit of trying to know the meaning of a word when I come across it first. Thus I knew that YOJANA meant plan (or is it planning, I wouldn't know).
In any case I don't think there is any doubt as to the origin of the word because the clue-writer has clearly added Indian-style.
We must remember this is a crossword published in India for Indian solvers and I don't see why we should not have such common Indian words.
Yes, SONATA might have been a possibility but no crossword solver software would return YOJANA for ths simple reason that it does not have it in the dB. So we must give credit to the composer that he has thought of something from the top of his head.
Returning to my own question whether it is plan or planning, a dict. of Indian words in English that I have has
yojana n Hindi A plan
Panch varshiya yojana - five-year plan
parivar niyogan yojana - family planning
For Indian words in English that are used in a crossword - even if it is an Indian one - wwe must probably have a norm.
ReplyDeleteCould that norm be that they must be recorded in a dictionary of English, even if it is an Indian edition of a UK tome?
Or as in the present instance that it must be a common one that may be found in use in any English newspaper in India?
What do you think?
As far as I can remember when the crossword was introduced in the paper and when Admiral Katari was setting it all by himself (on grids borrowed from well-known UK papers) such Indian terms were not in use at all.
ReplyDeleteAt a later stage when a certain compiler joined the panel the Indian element was introduced and others seem to be following the trend.
At present most if not all compilers seem to include Indian words so I am suprprised that this question is raised now.
Is it that some compilers use a self-imposed restriction while some not?
Is it that you thought those entries were acceptable but YOJANA was not?
BTW, what does niyogan mean? welfare?
ReplyDeleteRichard, who is a repository on names, might throw some light on the term niyogi, which is a community, name or a surname.
I like the Indian element in the Crosswords. Only the words should be what is commonly known and used in India, even if it does not figure in the OED. By that I see no problem with YOJANA. My objection was only that the clue itself could have been framed better
ReplyDeleteEnglish words, when broken up, yield components that might be worked into wordplay.
ReplyDeleteThis is not always the case with Indian words.
Take YOJANA. Does it give amenable components?
Maybe it does. Reversal of joy + an + a.
Maybe we can try and write a clue with that wordplay.
(I always raise a question and then stay for an answer.)
@Chaturvasi
ReplyDeleteIt is 'PARIVAR NIYOJAN YOJANA' and NIYOJAN means either employment or appointment, so literally that would transalte to 'FAMILY EMPLOYMENT PLANNING!!
I agree with Suresh on both counts. Today's crossword wasn't that enjoyable. And this particular clue could have been framed better. I'm ambivalent about Indian references in predominantly English crosswords like these. I'd rather tackle them in regional magazines.
ReplyDelete@Chaturvashi, I'm not sure I can come around to agree that YOJANA was a better clue than SONATA or some other "more acceptable" word(to me at least) because no automated software would return that name. Those who want to solve the puzzle by any means might have other options too for such words : )
ReplyDeleteIn all of the 15 mins it took to post my comment from the previous one, I moved into the dislike category from uncertain about Indian words. In this case it was easy for there was no ambiguity, but the other reason why I prefer not to see them is that some Indian words, when written in English based on the phonetics can yield multiple spellings left to the interpretation and imagination of the reader.
Well the least we can thank Sankalak for is this healthy debate because of today's puzzle.
Cheers
the other reason why I prefer not to see them is that some Indian words, when written in English based on the phonetics can yield multiple spellings left to the interpretation and imagination of the reader.
ReplyDeleteA valid point but a careful compiler will have wordplay that leads inexorably to the answer whether it is CHAPATI or CHAPATTI or whatever.
Interesting to read different perspectives on YOJANA.
ReplyDeleteThe answer is easy to guess if you know Hindi and are used to such clues in the THC. "Indian", in THC, generally implies a language switch.
I don't think it's a good clue, as those who don't know Hindi (which could many Indians who do THC) have no fair way to solve it. Standard dictionaries do not list this meaning. The clue does not give you any help in the way of constituent letters. Even the crossings do not favour the solver (people wouldn't have struggled as much with Y?J?N? now, would they?).
I enjoy well-written CDs and DDs very much, but the clue type must match with the word being clued. A CD for such a word is a no-no.
I'm OK with Hindi/Sanskrit words as long as they are adopted by English. Yojana is only a Hindi word and should not be given in an English crossword.
ReplyDelete