Friday, 26 September 2014

No 11200, Friday 26 Sep 2014, Incognito

Where are the Friends and countrymen? ;-) No samosa for me today as I'm stumped for some annos :-(

1   Bulge out for short time before being unpleasant (8) PROTRUDE {PRO}{T}{RUDE}
5   Girl is mad about Germany’s un-powered aircraft (6) GLIDER {GLI{DE}R*}
10 Alien's principle (5) TENET {TEN}{ET} Clue number on double duty!
11 Animals like horses and donkeys consume bovine creature when days and nights are equal (9) EQUINOXES {EQUIN{OX}ES}
12 Documents father has for every son (6) PAPER {PA}{PER}{S}
13 Dr. House's internist (8) THIRTEEN [GK] Thanks to Google [DD] - See comments
15 Tiara smashed into an Indian dish (5) RAITA*
17 Sailor and soldiers consumed (ate) before initial temperature reduction (9) ABATEMENT {B}{TE}{MEN}{T} Was there a necessity to clarify 'consumed'? Seecomments
19 Eat too much fodder from land on great Arizona estate initially (9) OVERGRAZE OVER{GR}{AZ}{Estate} Anno for 'OVER' not clear See comments
20 Look up data about leaders of first European republics (5) REFER {RE}{F}{E}{R}
21 Ancient jurisprudence is surprisingly normal with a woman ... (5,3) ROMAN LAW {ROMAN L*}{A}{W}
23 ... brothel keeper taking posh car for doctor's weed (6) MARRAM MA(-d+rr)RRAM
27 Unite a prisoner with prison and brew tea (9) CONJUGATE {CON}{JUG}{TEA*}
28 Cricket side, Edward, is murdered in America (5) O (Addendum - OFFED {OFF}{ED} - See comments) Don't know how I missed entering this?
29 South African Minister of State had a fried Indian snack (6) SAMOSA {SA}{MOS}{A} ... and so will many others today!
30 Gamble, without a note, and with hesitation, for an instrument (8) SPECULUM {SPECULate}{UM}

1   Raised a little dog in Chandigarh, say. Quite the contrary! (3,2) PUT UP {P{UT} UP}
2   Wine-lover remodelled pigeonhole after first glass was dropped (9) OENOPHILE PIgEONHOLE*
3   Rotating part model with a ball on each side is held by bishop (5) ROTOR {R{O}{T}{O}R}
4   Deleted — deleted initial half of letter in document (4) DEED DEletED
6   Mad Pitman left un-parliamentary composition for some time (5,4) LUNAR YEAR UN-pARLiamEntARY*
7   Pass away around 9 in the southern United States (5) DIXIE {D{IX}IE}
8   Roman senator is confused after man leaves wave generator (9) RESONATOR {ROman+SENATOR}*
9   Super heat mixture in Middle Eastern river (9) EUPHRATES*
14 Man, a lay lama, adapted a South Indian language (9) MALAYALAM {M+A+LAY+LAMA}*
15 RAF crooks design luggage carriers (4,5) ROOF RACKS*
16 Jason's fleet mates say, “Northern Australia” in many languages (9) ARGONAUTS ARGO{NA}UTS Anno pending (Addendum - {ARGO{N}{AU}TS} - See comments)
18 Spill fuel around first stronghold. That is strenuous (9) EFFORTFUL {E{F}{FORT}FUL*} 'F' for first? 
22 Roman money for short skirt held up by male (5) MINIM {MINI}{M} or is it {M}{INIM<=}
24 A zoo in-charge throws out an egg — it is lifeless (5) AZOIC {A}{ZOo}{IC}
25 Lady Lovelace is in the custody of two Frenchmen, milady (5) MADAM {M}{ADA}{M} I'm Adam!
26 Look both ways (4) PEEP <=>



  1. 19 Eat too much fodder from land on great Arizona estate initially (9) OVERGRAZE OVER{GR}{AZ}{Estate} Anno for 'OVER' not clear

    OVER = ON

  2. 17 Sailor and soldiers consumed (ate) before initial temperature reduction (9) ABATEMENT {B}{TE}{MEN}{T} Was there a necessity to clarify 'consumed'?

    Otherwise how does 'ate' come in between AB & MEN?

    1. Before is needed for surface.

    2. What's this?
      Consumed is c/c ind. ATE is the content.

    3. Then what's 'before' if not for surface?

    4. AB(ATE)MEN || T

    5. In my post at 835 I'd said that consumed was c/c ind. Then what's before for? Do you mean it should be placed between AB (ATE) and MEN and not anywhere in ABMEN? If so it's not needed and if not I've woken up from the wrong side of my bed today.

    6. I was endorsing the blogger's query ... If before is a position indicator , as I took it to be, then consumed need not have been clarified further. If consumed c/c ind then, before as Raghu says is only for surface..

    7. Sailor = AB
      soldiers = MEN
      consumed = Inserticator
      (ate) = ATE
      before = Position indicator
      initial temperature = T
      reduction = {AB}{ATE}{MEN}{T}

    8. If there is an inserticator why do you need a position ind? It indicates position of which word?

    9. Lemme put it in words:

      Sailor (AB) and soliders (MEN) consumed (insertion indicator) ATE (inserted matter) = AB(ATE)MEN

      (all of which is placed) before

      initial temperature (T)

    10. OK I am not arguing, but more for clarification. If an inserticator is provided, what is the need for a position indicator. Insert always is in between when only two components are there , in this case AB & MEN ? If there are more components, it would have been needed.

    11. Kishore,

      You would need 'before' in case T was leading AB ATE MEN. However the sequence of words is such that you don't need an indicator apart from surface reading duty

    12. The usage is similar to use of 'by' in many clues to signify 'next to' in a charade. Not absolutely necessary, but still used for surface reading and as a positioning indicator in the cryptic reading.

      Shri, the position indicator is not for the insertion. It is for placing the post-insertion text in front of the T

    13. You're the setter and your word is final!

    14. And hope there's an "abatement" in the no. of comments on this clue:)

    15. OK ,now I get it .. With so many palindromes today I should have looked either way :)

    16. The anno was "ullangai nellikkani" (I.e, if you have a gooseberry in your cupped palm, it's so patent, so clear, so palpable...).
      I am amazed it required so much clarification - that too in this forum.

    17. I still don't agree with you.

    18. Raghunath, "before" in this clue may not be absolutely necessary, but it's not doing the clue no harm either. Without "before" surface may suffer, so the setter has used the word as a positional indicator, though redundant. It's all right as I see it.

      Take this clue from one of the recent FT crosswords...

      Time to request team’s changed before manager finally becomes a slave driver (10) T ASK MASTE* R

      Again, in the above clue, "before" is not absolutely necessary, yet it's used as the surface needed it and additionally, it serves as an appropriate positional indicator. So no problem again

    19. IMO it's for surface only. In both the clues if you remove 'before' it does not make sense. The sequence of words renders it redundant otherwise

    20. Yes, it's for surface - additionally, a redundant positional indicator. Anywho, with or without it, clue works. So no problem.

    21. Can anyone explain (17-A), why additional 'ate' in bracket, when 'consumed' also means the?

  3. 16 Jason's fleet mates say, “Northern Australia” in many languages (9) ARGO{N}{AU}TS

    Argots: Languages

  4. 23 ... brothel keeper taking posh car for doctor's weed (6) MARRAM MA(-d+rr)RRAM

    D= DR?

    1. D.Litt. ,
      not &lit :-)

    2. I feel it's not fair to use part of a valid abbreviate and treat it as whole. If we thought it was okay, then N would be NATIONS (as in UN), D could be DIRECT (as in FDI), T may be TREATY (as in NATO) and so on...

    3. That's what I had asked at 9.03.

  5. Cricket side, Edward, is murdered in America (5) {OFF}{ED}

    Meaning: murdered in American parlance.

  6. 15 Tiara smashed into an Indian dish (5) RAITA*

    At first I thought he surface reading was implausible. But a moment's thought enlightened me. Dish has the sense of 'food' as def but 'utensil' in surface reading. A tiara, by some smashing, might be transformed into an implement for some other purpose.

    Crossword setters have a weird mind. (Maybe solvers too?)

    1. I took it as a girl by name Tiara collided with a dish

    2. As long as you did not think an Indian dish also referred to a girl

    3. CV, Like swords into ploughshares

    4. Too many girls in this clue ! ;-) But,honestly, can there really be too many ?!

    5. Come on, Incognito. So much story-building shouldn't be required of the solver to make sense of a clue's surface :-) The palindrome theme is nicely done, but RAITA jamaa nahin.

    6. Bangalore main bahut barsaat hai. Main paani paani ho gaya

    7. Well even I thought the surface was weird... Tiara smashed into food? LOL Hard to wonder how such a situation may arise..

    8. At the banquet, the queen discovered that the tiara was not gold, it was just gold plated. She threw it. The Tiara smashed into an Indian dish.

      Smashed is not only broken into pieces, it is also hit with great force. As in:
      The plane smashed into the mountainside.

    9. This sounds like some scene from Laurel & Hardy

  7. Tiara may be smashed into 'dish' (raita). But can raita be re-prepared as TIARA?

  8. A crossword setter's dictionary
    If you look both ways, you PEEP.
    If he looks both ways, he SEES.

  9. 18 Spill fuel around first stronghold. That is strenuous (9) EFFORTFUL {E{F}{FORT}FUL*} 'F' for first?

    As in first floor FF, first class FC

  10. Replies
    1. 13 comes in 13A!
      Anything to do with 12 houses of Zodiac?

    2. In 10, the clue number provides part of the charade, whereas here it provides a defn

  11. Replies
    1. You are correct, Paddy.

      I thought DG had got it, especially with his comment "Madam I'm Adam" which itself is a palindrome. I think CV was hinting this at 851 when he gave the illustration of PEEP and SEES

    2. Oh my!
      Very clever.
      But how many swine pick up these pearls?

    3. This not only stood out, but helped me to get a few also. Thank you for the compliments, but I was a little surprised it was not mentioned earlier.

  12. I thought so too.
    A/c- Tenet, Refer, Marram,
    Dn- Put up, Rotor, Deed, Malayalam, Minim, Madam, Peep
    Totals to 10!

  13. Shri at 925
    With so many palindromes today I should have looked either way :)

    That reminds me, in India, one has to look either way before crossing a one-way street

    1. Even further Kishore .. It is like 1 Dn , 3 Dn & 10 Ac

  14. Raised a little dog in Chandigarh, say. Quite the contrary! (3,2)
    This is a very good clue.
    Raised - def
    a little dog in Chandigarh say = PUP in UT
    Quite the contrary - no, no it is Chandigarh, say in a little dog = UT in PUP so we get the answer P(UT) UP

    This clue type is found often in UK crosswords.

    I don't think I have deployed this device in any of my crosswords..

    1. Let's hope we see one in one of these days...

    2. Thanks, CV. I am trying different things from my arsenal. Sometimes it fires well, but sometimes it back-fires

  15. My " I thought so too" referred to K's remark about Col. & CV's remarks- it is posted a little out of order.

  16. In all the heated debate which has seen no 'abatement' forgot to congratulate Incognito for the theme.

  17. Replies
    1. How could you post the score at 1123 at 1112?

    2. This Phantom is ahead of his time. ;)

      The clock on my cell phone is fast and I noticed it after posting.

  18. Thanks again K for the SAMOSA. I never thought there would an answer SAMOSA when you said it yesterday.

  19. Power failure - hence could not log in earlier

  20. Wonderful xie.All workable clues.To cite a few 1, 28,30a18d.28 a & 2d usages news to me.In fine, cognitively a complete puzzle.Thank you IC.

  21. With DD fiasco, the setter could have used Chinese President returning.

  22. Dr House serial in star world. He calls one of his interns 13.

  23. Kishore : Did I speak too'soon yesterday? The child has just started in Class I and how can you catapult it right away to Plus 2 ? Today's crossie is so unrecognizable as Incognito's !!

    In your palindr(a)omatic anxiety, you had presumed that the poor kid will turn out to be whizz-kid in crossies? This smacked of the Telegraph's Toughie !! DONOTDO this again.
    Annotations are rotated in a rotor !!