ACROSS
7 - Firm politician rises out of one impact (8) - {CO}{MP}{RESS
9 - Cool father came back to see the doctor (6) - {AP<-}{LO}{MB}
11 - Not real kind of jewellery (9) - IMITATION [DD]
12 - Old, but new again in the treasure trove (5) - RETRO [T]
13 - Options for traders to go back to the ring side in a daze (6) - {STUP<-}{O}{R}
14 - Raise the key letters at the tip off a slate (8) -?S?I?A?E (Addendum - {ESC}{A}{
17 - Speak in a round way (9) - DIS{COURSE} Anno for DIS pending
22 - Stones from unpaired slabs finally cover the house (8) - {S{H}INGLE}{S}
23 - Head butler will get to cook slowly (6) - {B}{RAISE}
25 - Come back over with the snarling dog (5) - {RE}{CUR} Snarling?
27 - Problem with the German spirit (9) - {CON}{UND}{RUM} A'la Kishore. BUt from where is the CON? Is it from with?
28 - A short course (6) - CLINIC
29 - Tree is in the eastern direction of the warm place (8) - {FIR}{E}{SIDE}
DOWN
1 - Precisely a different outline to overshadow (7) - ECLIPSE
2 - Order for a new single kind of line of collected works (7) - {OM}{N}{I}{BUS}
3 - Cap is placed on the jellied dish (5) - ASPIC* For what is it placed there?
4 - Encourage the small pet under record initially (4) - {S}{P}{U}{R}
5 - Fly without the flamboyant kind of ferry operator (7) - BOATMAN
6 - Sailor has a baldpate mostly in the middle part (7) - {AB}{DOME}{
8 - Argument with short reference to a child in Germany (9) - {RE}{A}{SON}{IN}{G} Short reference should be REF and not RE
10 - See the taboos on regular issues in an ancient town (7) -?N???U? (Addendum - {C}{NOS}{S}{U}{S} - See comments)
15 - Consideration form of policy (9) -
16 - Sound specifically caught in here vibrates (7) - {SC}{REE{C}H*} SC - specifically ?
18 - I ignore this historic kind of bird (7) - OSTRICH
19 - Kind of gold bar (7) - BISCUIT [DD] ? Bar!!
20 - Short substance in the voids of the tumour (7) - FIBROID Anno pending
21 - Dutch artist (7) - VERMEER [E] Could have been anyone!!
24 - Worker is in charge of the prank (5) - {ANT}{IC}
26 - Finally villager will help in the police action (4) - {R}{AID}
S & B II UPDATE
ReplyDeleteThe next S & B meet is scheduled to be held at Bangalore at my residence on Sunday, 28 Nov 10. We are meeting at my residence (address and map is available in the Contact details link on the top of this page) around 11 AM and will break off around 3 PM after lunch (I propose a simple Biriyani lunch, which will be ordered from outside)
As of now the following have confirmed attendance
Veer
Chaturvasi (tickets booked)
Bhargav accompanying Chaturvasi
One more from Chennai accompanying Chaturvasi(name awaited from CV)
Dr D Srinivasan from Salem
Richard from Mangalore
Kishore in Bangalore
Muthaiah from Chennai
Shuchi from Bangalore
Intimation from Vinod Raman of Bangalore is awaited.
Richard is tying up some newspaper coverage of the event.
Anyone else who is attending please do let me know so that administrative arrangements can be tied up.
Incompetently clued doesn't even begin to describe majority of them today.
ReplyDeleteGood morning (What is so good about it, some would feel)
ReplyDeleteCould crack only some. A few of them guesses.
COMPRESS, APLOMB, IMITATION, RECUR (?), CONUNDRUM, FIRESIDE, ECLIPSE, ASPIC, BOATMAN, ABDOMEN, INSURANCE, OSTRICH, RADI, ANTIC etc.
Gave up after some time, since I had better things to do rather than breaking my head over inane stuff.
10D CNOSSUS
ReplyDeletesee = C
taboos = NOS
regular issues = SUS
Some answers
ReplyDelete14 - Raise the key letters at the tip off a slate (8) -???I?A?E (ESC)(A) [s-]LATE
10 - See the taboos on regular issues in an ancient town (7) -?N???U? (C)(NOS)(SUS)
15 - Consideration form of policy (9) - INSURANCE [DD] ASSURANCE
20 - Short substance in the voids of the tumour (7) - FIBROID Anno pending (FIBR)[-e] [v-]OID[-s]
Hi
ReplyDeleteI have already given up. There seem to be more special characters in the blog today.
When we have abysmal clues here, let us appreciate the kind of great clues we get elsewhere:
Today’s Telegraph 21d: Potential trouble and strife? (7)
Reg:14A It could be ESCALATE with ASSURANCE IN 15D, ESC being the key letters and a (from where?) and late from slate (tip off)
Thanks VJ,
ReplyDeleteI got upto C & SUS and then gave up
27 - Problem with the German spirit (9) - {CON}{UND}{RUM} A'la Kishore. BUt from where is the CON? Is it from with?
ReplyDeleteThat is the problem
20 - Short substance in the voids of the tumour (7) - FIBROID Anno pending
Rhymes with another word that epitomises this CW and it is not ASTEROID.
16 - Sound specifically caught in here vibrates (7) - {SC}{REE{C}H*} SC - specifically ?
ReplyDeleteWe had a similar clue recently. The discussion was under here :
http://thehinducrosswordcorner.blogspot.com/2010/11/no-9991-thursday-04-nov-10-nita-jaggi.html
I wasn't keen on completing today's puzzle. Stopped half-way. I was having a headache seeing all the "tip-offs."
ReplyDeleteAnd I was sure 9A was APOLLO. Thank god I was wrong. The clue had "father came back"(AP), see (LO) and "the doctor." Thought NJ was doing a PULSAR on us and filled the grid as APOLLO
S & B II UPDATE
ReplyDeleteDeepak,CV has informed that the other person has opted out and only the following are attending:
Rishi
CGB
Chaturvasi
(maybe Gridman might show up)
Today's puzzle is a real low for what is already a down in the dumps expectation from this setter.
ReplyDeleteBhavan, don't lose hope. Sooner or later, NJ's gonna change her ways and start setting fair clues.
ReplyDelete14a Probaby, the German stands for CONAN (the Hun / barbarian) which has been spelt here as CONUND
ReplyDeleteVJ @ 8:50,
ReplyDeleteWhen that happens the Sun will rise from the West !!!
VJ : That seems like height of optimism to me !
ReplyDeleteDeepak
ReplyDeleteFrom Chennai I and Bhargav are coming.
The other person had in fact told me at our meeting that much as he would like to come a pressing duty around that date prevents him from coming.
When I posted my post, post that meeting, my ageing brain cells prompted me wrong.
As for myself, you can count me as you will with the help of the resident mathematician.
Deepak (852), LOL. We'd probably wake up in disbelief.
ReplyDeleteBhavan, optimism is beautiful ain't it!
ReplyDelete14 - Raise the key letters at the tip off a slate (8) ESCALATE
ReplyDeleteCreate an image (or picture) raised by this clue. Or visualise the idea that you get from the surface reading of this clue.
Many clues were misleading. NJ has taken us for a ride
ReplyDeleteChaturvasi (900), I think that's the biggest challenge you've ever thrown.
ReplyDeleteAfter writing A B C on her slate my three-year-old granddaughter tried to do what is suggested in the clue and having failed to do so she is crying her head off (to use an operation within it!) and I am unable to console her.
ReplyDeleteDeepak, 852:
ReplyDeleteI vaguely remember a Tamil song which goes:
Id merkitond(r)a udayam (this is a sunrise from the west)
I hope I have words right.
Bhavan 844: The market can now go in only one direction: up (I hope I am right )
DJ
ReplyDeleteThis ride that you mention, was it in a
a) rocket
b) airplane
c) train
d) bus
e) car
f) bicycle or
f) tricycle?
14 - Raise the key letters at the tip off a slate (8) ESCALATE
ReplyDeleteThere are some important letters stuck at the bottom of a slate. You try to jerk these letters off the slate by raising them.
Wow!
ReplyDeleteVJ, you've risen to the challenge and come out in arch defence.
@Colonel -
ReplyDeleteAbbreviation (short) for reference could be Re.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reference
Got this from the free dictionary
prep
Business with reference
to reference your letter of the 9th inst Abbreviation re
It seems that you can bend like Obama in Keshav's cartoon today.
ReplyDeleteChaturvasi, LOL
ReplyDelete@Col,
ReplyDelete19 - Kind of gold bar (7) - BISCUIT [DD] ? Bar!
21 - Dutch artist (7) - VERMEER [E] Could have been anyone!!
I enjoyed your comments and could very well understand your predicament!!!
@CV Sir 0907 - prob. on a ESCALATor ? :-)
ReplyDeleteI haven't bought gold (except in ornamental form for my dear wife and daughter) but honestly when you buy this shining metal for investment purposes, a biscuit is quite different from a bar (or ingot?)
ReplyDeleteCould any gold investor here clarify?
DJ
ReplyDeleteThat's an excellent redound!
17 - Speak in a round way (9) - DIS{COURSE} Anno for DIS pending
ReplyDelete---
Say SPEAK. Your lips broaden and your teeth (whether original or in bridges or implanted) show.
Say DISCOURSE. Your mouth opens and the lips form an O (round).
Inspired by a Karunanidhi statement in Tamil displayed in TN buses.
LOL Chaturvasi. That was brilliant.
ReplyDeleteKishore @ 9.03 - in the normal case when someone hits rock bottom the only way is up unless they start digging...
ReplyDelete@CV Sir - 0929 - Anno. for 17A could be
ReplyDeleteRound - DISC
Way - COURSE (path)
DISCOURSE
Can't think of any other explanation.
17 - Speak in a round way (9) - DIS{COURSE} Anno for DIS pending
ReplyDeleteDIS: Treat, mention, or speak to rudely (Word Web)
NJ seems to have checked the meaning of 'dis' only as far as 'speak'!
@Chaturvasi (9:29) - Good one!
ReplyDeleteRound - DISC
ReplyDeleteWay - COURSE (path)
So far so good, DJ. But how do the two C's merge to form DISCOURSE?
@CV Sir 1010 - I knew someone would question that. I am not sure if the clue was meant to lead us to nowhere ( or now here!).
ReplyDeleteCV @ 10:10
ReplyDeleteIf you write C from DISC on top of C from COURSE it will look like one C since shape of both the C's are same, hence you get DISCOURSE (Provided you are using the same font for both)
Or one of the C moved ON to become CON in the conundrum.
ReplyDeleteCONUNDRUM! Perhaps this was meant to be taken literally. Well the entire clue is one big conundrum.
ReplyDeleteI think DISCOURSE is a CD. When people are in a DISCOURSE, they sit in a circle (round) so that they could see each other. It'd be more face to face.
I got it. It is all the fault of the typesetter of TH.
ReplyDeleteThe newspaper printed the clue as
17d Speak in a round way (9)
But in fact, she had given it as
17d Speak in a round way shortly (9)
which obviously gives {DISC}{(-c)OURSE}
Ta Da!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Satya, I think "way shortly" would make it COURS and not OURSE.
ReplyDeleteNeeta Jaggi uvaca,
ReplyDelete"Snip the head, snip the tail, geez, what's the difference!!! Picky people, you xwd solvers! Sticklers for rules, for grammar, for everything. Come on, get a life! Leave me alone! If you don't like my puzzles, then print an old Gridman's puzzle (yeah, yeah, that guy on whom ya'll drool over) and enjoy. (Aside: I better go to the bank this afternoon to cash my check.)"
uvaca (contd) " Cash my check, check my cash ...
ReplyDeleteIf you want grammar, dont try CWs, go to grammar school. CWs are shortly going to be renamed as CDMs (cash dispensing machines)"
DJ,CV: Pram,the vehicle not in the list, is what we are taken for a ride on, we babes, that too in the woods.
Paper came late. Solving got late and ultimately completed about 10.30. 28A is a blank. Clinic did not make sense. Cheated for CNOSSUS, but not cursing as much as Deepak's opener. DISCOURSE is probably shortening Disc not course. Some dubious clues but not as much of a washout as others are expressing
ReplyDelete8 - Argument with short reference to a child in Germany (9) - {RE}{A}{SON}{IN}{G} Short reference should be REF and not RE
ReplyDeleteI think RE as a short form of reference is okay. We commonly use re in correspondence to mean reference
Following Suresh's comment above I have this to say: I have commented on three clues - 14, 17, 19. I stand by whatever I have said. I believe these three clues are such that they have to be put under a scanner. That is what I have done.
ReplyDeleteI do not see a problem with 14, or with 19(except that it is an E clue)
ReplyDeleteThis is Padmanabhan from Chennai.I am adding my comment for the first time though I have been an avid follower for nearly a year.Being a computer muff could not post.Got myself educated thanks to Cv sir.By the way,I am the mysterious person who is supposed to have joined the second Bloggers meet at Bangalore.I know I am the loser and still hoping to make up at the next meet.The fault is probbaly mine in not informing Cv in time about my inability.Wishing the meet a great success and hoping to read about it in the press!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteuvaca 3: Cheque de The Hindu!
ReplyDeleteRefer http://buying-gold.goldprice.org/2006/01/gold-biscuits.html
ReplyDeleteA gold biscuit is a cast gold bar
Richard: :-)
ReplyDeleteSuresh, you don't see a problem with 14?
ReplyDelete1. If key = ESC, what is "letters" doing there? It cannot give A 'cause there would have to be at least 2 letters.
2. If tip off = taking out the letter's tip, then the one to be removed (from SLATE) is E and not S. Well tip is not the same as top.
3. Surface reading, to put it mildly, is hard to understand.
I second Suresh for 14A.
ReplyDelete14 - Raise the key letters at the tip off a slate (8)
Key letters = ESC as in the keyboard
"a" should have been before tip off, but with NJ this is as good as it gets.
Tip off SLATE = LATE
Tip merely denotes an extreme end. It doesn't have to be the farthest always. Nor does it mean rightmost.
Raise = ESCALATE
Surface reading yes, I agree with VJ.
Bhavan, on tip,
ReplyDeleteI see where you're coming from. I still feel it'd make better sense if the word is used to indicate removal of the right-most letter in an across clue or the bottom-most letter in a down clue.
Anyway, would like to hear what others gotta say.
Bhavan's put down what I meant about 14. Re Surface reading, I have seen worse from other good setters.
ReplyDeleteNJ's clues are nothing but a hodge podge of letter manipulation indicators set in no particular meaningful way for anything but the cryptic reading. The surface meaning is almost incidental or accidental in the clues. I feel several here (and we now have evidence given the Diwali puzzle) can clue the words in the grid better and I am not talking of the professionals lurking amongst us.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the most enjoyable cryptic puzzle is the one with great clue surfaces while keeping on the right side of cryptic conventions. Without a nice surface, cryptic crossword solving becomes a labored exercise, IMHO.
Just on 14, an error is an error, "tip off a slate" to indicate removing the "s" in "slate" is not correct as everyone agrees here. So, 14 cannot be right.
Yes, 'letters' could be an anagram indicator but "letters at the tip off a slate" does not seem to be just right as an instruction to anagram A LATE after ESC.
ReplyDeleteYes, 'tip off slate' can (at a stretch) give LATE instead of SLAT as I would interpret but the letter 'a' is in a wrong position.
Which is the 'tip of the pencil'? Surely the business end of the pencil and not where it is tipped with eraser.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSorry. Let me reword it.
ReplyDeleteESC-A-[s]LATE
There does not seem to be an anagram at all. Then what's 'letters' doing in the clue?
Yes, as stated above 'a' is in wrong position.
Yes, there is this controversy about 'tip-off'.
When we say 'tip to toe', tip means head! So 'tip off SLATE' might yield LATE.
All said and done, it's a carelessly written clue with a contempt for the solvers and we are wasting our time discussing it.
There is some justification for the abrupt end to solving this crossword elsewhere.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOn further thoughts, the compiler might have meant by "the key letters" - 'the letters of the key ESC', 'the letters of ESC', so ESC.
ReplyDeleteKishore et al
ReplyDeleteI am surprised to find that 'tip to toe' is NOT recorded in Chambers, though I scoured it from stem to stern.
Haven't we come across this idiom in PGW?
ESC could be a cryptic message asking us to ESCAPE from this agony.
ReplyDeleteInstead of breaking our heads all day long, the best thing to do is use Ctrl, Alt, Delete.
ReplyDeleteA simple quiz; Among all the contemporary contributors to the mainstream newspapers, who is the most grilled, most lampooned and least appreciated one? (Nothing personal; strictly from the point of view of contribution)
Visiting here after long, hello everyone.
ReplyDelete14 Raise the key letters at the tip off a slate (8) ESCALATE
I like "key letters = ESC".
Tip is the extreme end, not necessarily the rightmost. But for the intruding "a", "tip off SLATE" = SLAT or LATE work equally well.
One of the less problematic clues in this puzzle, I'd say.
About "tip" being more appropriate for removing the bottom-most letter in a DOWN clue:
ReplyDelete"Top" is, in fact, a direct synonym of "tip", as in the "tip of a mountain".
So many of you for company today! It makes me feel kind of... kind of... kind of... (sorry, I apologise for the side-effects of looking at today's grid showing up).
ReplyDeleteI hope someone can clarify the following clues for me.
23A: will get = RAISE?
27A: UND for "the German"? Is this just an NJ quirk that 'the German' could possibly refer to any German word and not just a translation of the article the.
1D: Which part of the clue refers to RY?
Colonel, re: 25D, I think NJ's pet dog only wags its tail obediently. And she has only seen mongrels snarl. :D
Also, tips of the iceberg and stalagmite are their tops.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow one should be tiptop from hair to heel.
And as the men in India first look at the feet of a woman rather than her face, they describe her "paadhadhikesha".
ReplyDeletePlease correct the phrase, if need be.
Navneeth:
ReplyDelete23a will get to (a topic) = to raise (a topic), I know it is a bit far fetched
27a with the=and=und ( in German) (as in Donner und Blitzen)
1d outline=out line= remove line=remove railway=remove ry (NJ logic for you)
1d outline=out line= remove line=remove railway=remove ry
ReplyDeleteOh, dear Lord!
Thanks, Kishore.
CV 1951 And after reaching the face:
ReplyDeleteNazar milaayi to poochhunga ishq ka anjaam, Nazar jhukaayi to khaali salaam kar loonga
If her eyes meet mine, I will inquire about the result of love, if she looks down, I shall just present my regards.
Talking of eyes,
ReplyDeleteI thank member(s) for correcting me about the title of he Tamil film as well as the first line of the song from which I quoted yesterday.
Talking of 'kannum kannum', how does this line go:
"kannum kannum ... kaadhal endru arththam"
The intermediate word/words is/are eludig me.
Here you are CV:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMzK4sVU_OY
Hi Shuchi, thanks to you and Chaturvasi for clearing that up (on tip). I now feel stupid for having raised this doubt on a no-brainer. The expression "tip of the ice-berg/ mountain" makes it pretty obvious that tip is synonymous with top. Don't know how I could have missed that. Maybe I was blindly taking "tip" to mean "end" as in last in the sequence of letters. My bad!
ReplyDeleteHowever I still feel it's a bit ambiguous. Well it doesn't specify as to which of the extreme ends need to tipped. I think the setter could have chosen a more precise indicator.
Chaturvasi, "tip to toe" is a new one for me. Isn't "top to toe" more common?
ReplyDeleteChaturvasi@20:19, koLLai adithAl.
ReplyDelete20:19! Meant to type 20:12.
ReplyDeleteSo for the final count, Shuchi and CV, how many slips showing today?
ReplyDeleteThanks, Kishore and Navneeth.
ReplyDeleteI know people steal glances. Here they seem to rob!
It's not just the slip but even the skin shows.
ReplyDeleteDidn't do the crossword, much less analyse it clue by clue.
The skin ? or the skeleton?
ReplyDelete