Was crucified by the 'cross' word on Good Friday in the NE and SW. Incidentally there are two crosses in the grid.
Across
1 Very beautiful shawls majorly embellish the queen of the Adriatic (6) VENICE Anno not clear (V NICE outside E) See comments
4 Secretary assimilating lawyer’s poor handwriting (8) SCRIBBLE (SCRIBE outside BL)
9 My boot could be rugged (6) TOMBOY (MY BOOT)* Not sure if this definition is enough
10
Inferno
— a largely grim horror story (8) DISASTER See comments
12 Upright individual in green state of USA (8) VERTICAL (VERT 1 CAL)
13 Hearts of smallest lives (6) NUCLEI CD
15 It could be a delta output (4) RICE CD
16 Where Tiruchi’s fort was built // in great difficulty (2,3,5) ON THE ROCKS DD
19 Car stops beside some watering holes (6,4) SALOON BARS (SALOON as in 'car' and BARS as in 'stops')
20 Darling’s gyratory dance move (4) STEP (PETS)* Could also be PETS< See comments
23 Amateurs were incumbent on soldiers (6) LAYMEN See comments
25 Vehicle test needs alternatively, worker and driver (8) MOTORMAN (MOT OR MAN)
27 Mineral discharge in firm soil found to recede (8) CORUNDUM (CO RUN MUD<)
28 Listen to unpolished lectures (6) COURSE (~COARSE)
29 A giant-killer, a con and a criminal (8) ANACONDA (A CON AND A)*
30 Aunt gets rid of skirts… and belt turns loose (6) UNKNOT (aUNt KNOT) I had put in UNKNIT at first See comments
Down
1 Around western banks of Tapti, revive fresh grass (7) VETIVER (REVIVE* around T) a word of Tamil origin. Would banks in plural be right to describe only one letter to be taken from Tapti?
2 Novel narrated a fantastic miracle of numbers (9) NUMERICAL (NU ~new+ MIRACLE*)
3 Labourer uprising reported to misrepresent truth (6) COOLIE (COO ~coup+ LIE)
5 Fibre band’s not hard (4) COIR (ChOIR)
6 Unexpected rainy hour’s not over soon (2,1,5) IN A HURRY (RAINY HOUR -O)*
7 A leaf-insect, so to say (5) BETEL (~BEETLE)
8 Cringers heed rebukes (7) EARWIGS? See comments
11 Aspirant of white collar employment, primarily (7) WANNABE (WAN NAB E) This clue was nice
14 It is base to go behind half-chewed cigar (7) CHEROOT (CHEwed ROOT(=base))
17 Hundred at a wreck on a new boat (9) CATAMARAN (C AT A MAR A N)
18 Be involved in design of emoticon (4,4) COME INTO (EMOTICON)*
19 A cult is disbanded in a Caribbean island (2,5) ST LUCIA (A CULT IS)*
21 Sharp ointment, though not top-class, shows power at first (7) PUNGENT (P+ UNGuENT)
22 Degenerate shed (6) GODOWN (GO DOWN)
24 Australian river range seen to be withdrawing (5) YARRA (ARRAY<)
A very good effort, and clever use of containers, eg shawls.
ReplyDeleteIs there a problem in 1D with an extra 'I'?
Not also wholly convinced with the construction of 27A
No problem in 1D' western bank of Tapti is just the 'T'
DeleteSir, it is western 'banks'
DeleteBhala even then the 'I' will not come into picture as that is the eastern bank :-)
DeleteCol: my anno for that is 'TI' going west. Around that is REVIVE*. Fresh being the anagram indicator.
DeleteThis leads to the extra I.
Vetiver need not be fresh grass, just grass.
Anyway, some issue with the clue, maybe we get a clarification later.
Up quite early today for a change!
I see some merit in your anno too, Bhala. We either have an extra eye or an extra bank here.
DeleteActually scratch my anno Kishore and Col. I think I must have been half-asleep. I think it should have been just 'Western bank', then everything gels.
DeleteKishore: I think the def needs to be just grass, otherwise there is no anagrind for REVIVE which is required
Kishore,
DeleteYou need to change the def to only grass. The only way the anno works is if banks is singular.
Oops! Sorry for the repeat comment.
DeleteAs said by you Tomboy also is an incomplete def, as is Rice, I think, in case it's not GK.
So we agree we have one bank too many. BTW can a river have more than one western bank, especially if it meanders? Right bank and left bank are fine, but banks with adjectives derived from compass points can be troublesome if the river is not fairly straight.
DeleteAlso, though a Tomboy is rugged, rugged is not a tomboy. I put rice as a CD mainly because the words delta output could mislead one into thinking about electrical output from delta configurations.
How do we get a western and eastern bank if the river flows East-West and by the way right or left bank will depend on which way you are looking at the river from North to South or South to North or shall I say East to West, West to East, I'm confused now ;-)
DeleteRight and left, as I understand it, is based on the presumption that you are going downstream along with the water. So that establishes the right and left banks with certainty. But north, east, south and west will be difficult to establish unless the river is fairly straight and flows in any one of these directions.
DeleteAnd now we want a women's bank
Delete@Suresh: The idea of a women's bank is great, but such banks could contribute more towards Pinterest rather than interest (not my idea :P)
Delete23A - {LAY}{MEN}
ReplyDelete1 Very beautiful shawls majorly embellish the queen of the Adriatic (6) VENICE Anno not clear
ReplyDeleteV NICE outside E(mbellish)
24D - YARRA <=
ReplyDelete10A - {DIS}{A}{STER(-n)}
ReplyDelete23A: LAYMEN
ReplyDelete8D: Agree with EAR+WIGS
I had 20A as PETS <= and not an anagram
ReplyDelete+1
Delete30A: Maybe a typo? I thought it should be bell and not belt
ReplyDelete30A: Maybe a typo? I thought it should be bell and not belt. Reversal indicator to be shown in anno?
ReplyDelete3A No typo there it is {(-a)UN(-t)}{KNOT<=}
ReplyDeleteI had it as UNKNIT too (like Kishore). But UNKNOT works very well, bingo
DeleteThanks to BP and DG for all help.
ReplyDelete19A Car stops beside some watering holes (6,4) SALOON BARS (SALOON as in 'car' and BARS as in 'stops')
ReplyDeleteIn India and maybe in other Asian countries too, 'saloon' is used in a wrong context - like hairdressing saloon. The correct word is Salon.
A saloon is 1. place where alcoholic drinks are sold and drunk; a tavern 2. A large room or hall for receptions, public entertainment, or exhibitions.3. The officers' dining and social room on a cargo ship.
b. A large social lounge on a passenger ship, or 4. A sedan automobile.
(Source: Thefreedictionary)
And thereby sprouts an idea. You can truthfully tell your wife you are going to the saloon and not be bar-red.
DeleteSorry that should have been:
DeleteAnd thereby sprouts an idea. You can truthfully tell your wife you are going to the saloon and not be de-bar-red.
Barred and debarred seem to mean the same in this situation.
@Richard 8:56 - I think I agree with you where common usage is concerned, but the dictionaries do differ.
DeleteCollins has 'saloon' as 'an obsolete word for 'salon''. Maybe we are obsolete.
Interestingly Chambers has the following entry for saloon (among others):
saloon noun 1 a large public room for functions or some other specified purpose, such as billiards, dancing, hairdressing, etc.
So maybe we can be forgiven after all.
I find the use of 'hotel' interchangeably with 'restaurant' all over India quite intriguing
Kishore 9:12 - Great idea. At one place, it would be a cut above the rest.
DeleteAt the other, you can walk in optimistically and come out misty optically.
Kishore rightly recalled the Tamil origin of 1D but overlooked that of 17D. Catamaran is derived from Kattu Maram.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct.
DeleteAnother such word is 29A anaconda.This is derived from Tamil யானை கொன்றன் yaanai kondra, "(that) which killed an elephant".
ReplyDeleteThere are several such words which originated from Tamil such as include mulligatawny, corundum and patchouli.
27A CORUNDUM is from a Tamil word for 'ruby', குருந்தம் kuruntham or குருவிந்தம் kuruvintham (Source: OED).
ReplyDeleteCoolie too probably, from the wages paid to a labourer...
DeleteAnd cheroot too
DeleteSo we have a theme?
DeleteI think so:
DeleteAnd if we examine this clue carefully:
25 Vehicle test needs alternatively, worker and driver (8) MOTORMAN (MOT OR MAN)
and do some research, maybe the word came from the first engine driver on the Madras suburban trains, the venerable Mr Muthuraman
Betel no doubt comes from Vettalai
DeleteAnd coir from kayaru
DeleteAny connection between Tomboy and Thambuchetty Street?
DeleteNo. That street was not named by a cruciverbalist.
DeleteYes, and there are also other words in this Cryptic:
ReplyDelete7D BETEL is from the Tamil word வெற்றிலை vettrilai: வெட்ட்ரு "vettru"=plant name + இலை "ilai"=leaf (Source: OED)
22D GODOWN is from the Tamil word கிட்டங்கி (கிடங்கு) Kittangi (kidangu/kodangu) meaning "store room".
14D CHEROOT is from Tamil சுருட்டு suruṭṭu, roll or rolled (Source: OED).
Interertingly, verandah owes its origin to the Tamil word வெறுந்தரை veruntharai - Verum வெறும் (empty) + tharai தரை (floor).
I remember we used to have a tharai ticket in cinema halls, which in smaller towns like Coonoor was வெறும் தரை
DeleteHow is earwig a cringer?
ReplyDeleteBest I can come up with is that both are 'crawlers'. A 'maybe' or 'perhaps' in the def would not have been out of place.
DeleteHeed for 'Ear' is also a bit iffy?
14 It is base to go behind half-chewed cigar (7) CHEROOT (CHEwed ROOT(=base))
ReplyDeleteThe word Cheroot also has origin from Tamil. [from Tamil curuttu curl, roll]. Tiruchi Urayur Cheroots are world famous. Sir Winston Churchill used to order his cheroots from Urayur, Tiruchi.
And cheroot from Surutu too.
ReplyDelete5D COIR from Tamil 'கயிறு' "kayiru" for rope or thread or to be twisted.
ReplyDelete15A RICE is indirectly borrowed from Tamil அரிசி arici through several intermediary languages.
Definitely English words of Tamil origin seems to be the hidden theme today.
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Tamil_origin
Shakespeare from செகசிர்பியன் (Chegachirpian) or சேஷுஐயர் (Seshu Iyer)?????
ReplyDeleteRICE may be part of the theme. There are some linguists who think that 'arici' (or 'arisi') went to Greek as 'ariki' (and then to Italian and English).
ReplyDeleteArabic 'ariz' for rice is close to it.
DeleteI am still thinking of Mr Muthuraman
ReplyDeleteWho's still turning in his grave
DeleteThe mention of Tiruchi (16 Dn) brings nostalgic memories.
ReplyDeleteMy grandfather, Shri Sundararaja Iyengar, worked with Mr Reynolds, Engineer-in-Chief of the Golden Rock Workshop (Ponmalai) of the then Madras & Southern Mahratta Railway. The family used to live in Singara Thoppu till they moved to government quarters in Kottai. My mother studied in Holy Cross Convent.
Savithri Vidhyasala was started around that time which later became Seethalakshmi Ramaswamy College.
The Savitri Vidyasala Hindu Girls Higher Secondary School was started in 1938. It is a unit of the Padmabhushan Sri N Ramaswami Ayyar Educational Complex. Its success in the field of women's education led to the establishment of the Seethalakshmi Ramaswami Penmakkal Kalluri (College for Women) in 1951.
ReplyDeleteI only thought of 'scotch on the rocks'. Today I learnt of Trichy on the rocks
ReplyDeleteBhala appearing as big as life again
ReplyDeleteI have cut him down to size again
DeleteHave fun, no doubt I'll pop up again!
Delete@Col,
ReplyDeleteFiller kept us engrossed last Sunday.
Who will be contributing the Cryptic for Easter?
This sunday special will be one from Rajus vast collection
DeleteShakespeare could have been Sheshappa Iyer and Trivelyan was Thiruvelavan? Sullivan was from Solaivanam? May be?
ReplyDeleteAs a child, I used to get a had stony sweet called Porulanga from my grandmother on her visits to Bombay from Calicut. It needs a hammer to break it into pieces and the end product is a Katta meeta delight. Like Coke, no one discloses its ingredients except those who make it themselves. Even today, I get it occasionally from someone from Madras.
I tried to break into the etymology and I reckon it could be Porul vilangatha Urundai since no one knows its origin ?
Can any Tamilian break the code of this hard granite and its ingredients? Any one eaten it before?
Since I'm not familiar with the language.
Porivilangai Urundai
ReplyDeletePorivilanga is a famous "pandam" ( Pandam means dish)in our Tirunelveli dist. porulvilanga urundai is a traditional recipe and it is a nutritious pack of, protein rich peanuts, roasted gram, mung dal, dry ginger which aids in digestion. The name of the sweet ball means that the consumer may not know what it consists of. Which translates as, "porul - meaning, vilanga - cannot understand, urundai - balls", which denotes that, one cannot make out the ingredients that has gone into the making of this laddu. But now the word is modified to "Porivilanga" in due course time. In this sweet Actually we can add more the ingredients as per our taste. ( Wheat, channadal, barley, sago, almond, cashew nut ,etc.), This Laddu Its taste will be yummy but it becomes harder to bite after an hour of preparation. poriviLangai urundai used to be the jawbreaker .Usually it is very hard and needs to be broken using even a hammer sometimes! Good notes about this dish not require any fats in the form of ghee /r butter, nor does it contain refined sugar! ...... Taken from Ruchi Blog
Porivilangai brings back great memories. My grandmother was an expert at making them and they use to be stored in large dabbas in the store. Small kids would be given one each and that would keep them busy for quite a while gnawing away at it till they manged to get a piece of it. The ones you get nowadays are not as hard as they used to be. I do remember breaking them with a hammer to offer it to guests.
DeleteAs Venkatesh has written, the mention of Tiruchi brings a lot of nostalgic memories for me too. I have done my schooling at ER High School (near Teppakulam and Chintamani)and PUC from St. Joseph's college, near Main Guard Gate. My grand father Rengaswamy was the first person to start a Typewriting Technical Institute called "Ranga Vilas Technical Institute" which was located in Periya Kadai street, close to rock fort temple.I have a pdf file which contains a rare collection of 19th century Trichinopoly photos/paintings. I have sent it Colonel to share it with our blog members if possible.
ReplyDeleteThose who are interested let me know and I will forward it to you. Dr DS I have sent it to you as requested
DeleteThanks Col & Rengaswamy. Quite an interesting info with rare pictures
Delete65 comments and still a couple of clues are unresolved!
ReplyDeleteThat is because we went off on a tangent about TAmil Nadu, GENTlemen.
DeleteAre you referring to 9a and 1d as pending or any others.
Looks like the West Bank issue can be resolved only by Israelis, Palestinians and Scintillator.
Wordplay maestro as always Kishore? While solving this morning, I was thinking that instead of the somewhat wordy clue for 21D, it could have been 'Kishore's sharp'. Am sure many of the bloggers would have got it!!
DeleteLooking forward to more
I did not think either of them required resolving or re-solving.
Delete9A Only a doubt whether Rugged can be an adequate def for Tomboy. I thought it was ok, because the rest of the clue led clearly to the answer and a tomboy would be a 'rugged' sort of girl.
1D is probably a printing error.
Earwigs. Also pointed by you in the morning.
ReplyDeleteAn earwig is a pest or a person who is known to be persistent. someone that clings
DeleteBut then 'heed' in the clue should have been written as 'eed
DeleteJoining in late and missed all the fun. Comments column today is very interesting to read with imagination running really wild!
ReplyDeleteRe. 'western banks of Tapti'-
ReplyDeleteWestern could always nean the first letter of any word and eastern the last letter.Because the setter chose 'tapti' as the word, he might have put in banks in stead of simply west. Even in today's byline Kishore mentions NE & SW. That does not mean we turn the paper around north-south etc. That said, it should have been bank and not banks.
Is it okay to say 'get rid of the skirts' for removal of first and last letter?
By the way,
I don't know how my last 2 lines got interchanged!
ReplyDeleteSuresh,
ReplyDeleteIt's Cringers not clingers. Blame the usual suspect ol' man Typo?
That is right. Two is too many typos.
DeleteHa, so many comments today! Here we go with the clarification thingy:
ReplyDelete1D: Someone in TH is having a lot of free time to pamper with clues without any clue. It should be 'bank' and that was what I had written in. Similarly my 16A had Trichy instead of Tiruchi - not a big deal but what's the point of making such changes into others' work, I wonder!
8D: Cringer=Flatterer=Earwig (ref:Chambers)
Ear=Attention=Heed (ref:Chambers again)
The deception comes from the fact that heed must be taken as a noun in the cryptic reading.
9A: Cannot see how so many people missed it: it is an &-lit. 'could be rugged' is the anagram indicator. The definition (the clue as a whole) is about a person who prefers rugged boots - you would assume tomboy prefer those to pink shoes or high heels. By the way, the best clue possible for TOMBOY is perhaps this screamer from Anax (I was sad I could not use it!):
I am not lady-like: there's a sweaty smell to my clothes (6)
Think I have addressed the queries, but I am not sure about Bhala's "Not also wholly convinced with the construction of 27A" - I may need to know the problem in more detail in order to be able to help.
Don't exactly find those meanings ascribed in the online version of Chambers 12th ed for Earwig, Cringer, Ear -- but not an issue. Typos from the paper can be a bugbear.
DeleteOK my point about 27A may be moot, and in any case was not an impediment to solving. But a small technical issue perhaps:
'Run' containment within 'firm soil receding': question is whether firm soil is then taken as one entity and receding as the reversal indicator coming at the end should apply to both the subsets (CO & MUD). If there was such a word as 'OCRUNDUM' your clue would still be valid! This would not have been an issue if the whole thing was strung together as a charade or if there was a link word between the subsets(say, at, by, with...)
Hi Bhala, Here is the Chambers link for ear and earwig.
DeleteI see your point in 27A, but I haven't come across opposition to such a construction in general. It may be because the choice is between just two sets of letters: CODUM and OCDUM. Instead consider containment in general. Consider the number of possible permutations the mind has to sift through when inserting a k-letter word inside an n-letter word - the start of the k-letter word could be in any of the positions from 2 to n-k, which is O(n) choices. As we know well, this is acceptable.
For an extreme case, consider anagrams: for a n-letter word, you need to sift through n! permutations to arrive at the correct word. This is fair as well, but in indirect anagrams, we do not know the n-letter word in the first place, which is why they are illicit.
Though not rigorous there is some mathematical justification to many rules in clue-writing - at least that's the way how I see them :)
Agree, that's why I prefaced it with 'moot', there are no hard and fast rules.
DeleteThanks for the link, I did not doubt it though, I know the online version is woefully inadequate. A full subscriber version would do the trick but the subscription is I think 40quid per annum - robbery! I can live without it.
Good puzzle, thanks
By the way, welcome to solving my puzzles, Kishore! This would not have been a nice one to start - I had tightened up the difficulty level since the last one was easy. Applause for your reasoning on why RICE was a CD - that was precisely what this engineer had ordered.
ReplyDeleteCongrats to Venkatesh for gradually cottoning onto the theme. Have a nice Easter weekend, all.
A CD as per my definition is something which does not fit into any other type.
DeleteI, honestly, did not know the meaning of clinger as flatterer. I use OED.
You're still clinging on to clinger. It is cringer as per Sci...
DeleteThanks, S, for the welcome. Yes, last time was much easier. And today I had various issues to tackle in the morning, but that's no excuse. Yours was just the last nail. My stigmata might just earn me a canonisation. But woes aside, motorman gave me a new joke to add to my repertoire: the parachute one was getting stale!
DeleteAnd today I had various issues to tackle in the morning
DeleteKishore
How many children do you have?
That's a different issue altogether...
Delete2 as of now. As to hat the future holds I know not. However, please keep your eyes peeled for any announcement I may make in this regard. You will be amongst th first ones to know. Abhi to main jawaan hoon!
Deletethank you Scintillator for coming with your side of things. Enjoyed today's CW. Trichy becoming Tiruchi should probably be blamed on the latest fad of changing names of cities and towns in the name of Indianisation/ regionalisation like Madras becoming Chennai etc. Trichy is supposedly the anglicised version of Tiruchirappalli ( became trichnopally during the English rule and later shortened to Trichy) Venkatesh & Rangaswamy to bear me out.
ReplyDeleteBut they should not do it in a cw.
DeleteAgreed. CV should throw some light on this. You know Hindu's officially official attitude!
DeleteHmmmm, has Scintillator ever revealed his real identity? I'm just curious 'cause his writing style and the confidence he oozes makes me wonder if he's one of those posters on this blog.
ReplyDeleteSomeone in TH is having a lot of free time to pamper with clues without any clue.
ReplyDeleteDid you actually mean to use the word 'pamper'?
Or have you substituted it for another rhyming word that you would have liked to use?
Similarly my 16A had Trichy instead of Tiruchi.
ReplyDeleteI cannot speak for typos (I have my own grouse not only wrt this feature but against the entire paper for many irritating errors in spelling, usage, punctuation, etc. I often write to the RE. Recently he carried a correction but my unstated complaint is that he did not mention that the error was pointed out by a reader. In another instance only yesterday, the first line of a very important article was edited and corrected after I pointed out the ambiguity that was present in the first version)
I can guess why Trichy became Tiruchi.
Trichy ( as Rengaswami would vouch for me) is short form of the anglicised Trichnopoly. The paper uses Tiruchi. As the clue is not affected by the change in spelling, the style of the paper must have been adhered to.
A little understanding is necessary on the part of the setters and editorial interventions must be put in their context.
All this without a crossword editor. If that personage were there, I don't know how much of to-ing and fro-ing might be there between him and the setters.
PS: This was written before I saw PBP's Comments above.
Hello CV, I am not sure TH uses Tiruchi throughout. See this search for the appearances of Trichy in the paper. I respect the decision to bring uniformity into the spelling anyway.
DeleteSorry for the pamper-tamper goof-up: now I have no one to point finger at (hangs head in shame).
Also, I have no hesitation in admitting:
DeleteI have not been good enough to crack it.
The quality of THC has improved by leaps and bounds.
ReplyDeleteI think some excellent crosswords have appeared in the past few months.
I have a dream - to select 50 best puzzles of 2013 (barring the Sunday crossword)..
Since THC is solved and commented upon here every day, the task can be achieved if I have some volunteers.
Some half-a-dozen solvers can allocate to themselves a fixed number of the over 300 puzzles that have been published or will be in 2013 and select what they think are the best among that quota.
I can be one of them. Later perhaps I can whittle the suggestions down to 50 (assuming they are likely to be more than 50 from the 300 plus).
Of course the selection must be privately circulated among teh volunteers.
Jan, Feb and Mar puzzles I can take and select the best among them.
ReplyDeleteThe number of months a volunteer can take is up to him or her.