2 - Easy kind of swimming stroke (6) - BREAST [CD]
7 - I am back with an important detailed podium feature (4) - {M'I<-}{KE
9 - Hill station is excessively dry at last (4) - {OOT<-}{Y} How does 'TOO' get reversed?
10 - Fanatic miller cuts the cereal grass (7,6) - AFRICAN MILLET* Never knew Ragi was African or Finger Millet
13 - Left out the tropical variety of this fruit (7) - APRICOT
15 - Refreshments are in a mess (4) - MEAL ? [CD]
17 - No boy heartily follows his sixth sense in the city (5) - {ESP}{O}{O} No means 'O' here !! Must congratulate NJ for finding such cities.
18 - I ignore the fable writer settled in the Dominican capital (4) - PESO
19 - No wayward character leaves the western route (7) - {R{O}ADWAY
21 - No air can be blown in this instrument (7) - {O}{CARINA*} and here also !!
27 - A good man rises for an arab emperor (4) - {TS<-}{AR}
28 - Many use different pool sticks (4) - {C}{UES*}
29 - In front of the seaweed behind Gort's men (6) - BEFORE is what fits. Anno pending.
DOWN
3 - Some see pictures in a big story (4) - EPIC [T]
4 - Small family casing (4) - {S}{KIN}
5 - Second big cat abruptly falls in mud (4) - {S}{
6 - You and I fail to notice the difficult situations of broadcasters (8) - STATIONS
8 - Zoo attraction for an early astronaut (5) - CHIMP [CD]
11 - President withholds fictitious payments in this kind of peace treaty (7) - AMNESTY
13 - It may be an expression of regret for one's mistakes (7) - APOLOGY [E]
14 - Can tip more characters about the prominent status (10) - IMPORTANCE*
16 - For once, chariots are repaired out this year for one practising black magic (8) - {EX}{ORCIST
20 - Leg support for one odd killer (5) - {AN}{K}{L}{E}
22 - Japanese members abroad (6) - NIKKEI [E]
24 - Japanese box is popular with the leaders of Russian organisations (4) - {IN}{R}{O}
26 - Briefly cook over the hot silver salmon (4) - {CO{H}O
Hi
ReplyDeleteA typical NJ: the last three words of 15a say it all. Ours not to reason why ...
Lots of monkeys were sent aloft before Ham, though I am not sure whether they were chimps. Laika is probably better remembered for being put in orbit in the ‘Muttnik’. I personally have found the ‘easy’ breast stroke impossible, though I have found the ‘tough’ butterfly easier.
Regarding my poser yesterday, well like the one before it, the common theme is aviation....
Aviation in 1930, a first, involving India.
Shall post the answer this evening.
Where to start ? May be by congratulating colonel for finding a COD.
ReplyDeleteThe BEF is British Expeditionary Force of Gort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Vereker,_6th_Viscount_Gort), but try as I might, can't figure what seaweed is ORE.
17 - No boy heartily follows his sixth sense in the city (5) - {ESP}{O}{O} No means 'O' here !! Must congratulate NJ for finding such cities.
ReplyDeleteSaare jaane maane explorers ek taraf, NJ doosri taraf to bhi NJ ka palla bhaari paDega.
Bhavan,
ReplyDeleteFirst, let me plead guilty to concocting this up.
Keeping in view the fact that at least 3 Nos (17a, 19a and 21a) follow a theme of No=O, as rightly noted by Deepak, I was on the lookout for the 3rd Japanese (after 22d and 24d) and since Japanese eat quite a few varieties of seaweed, I searched and got this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oarweed
and presumed that if NJ is privileged enough to leave out AnInds, or RevInds, she must also be privileged to leave out homophoneInds.
Kishore,
ReplyDeleteHighly probable that it could be the right interpretation.
Bhavan, if I got the anno right, then I must be going crazy; time to make a booking at the Loony Bin.
ReplyDeleteKishore, I see that one person has marked this puzzle as outstanding. I hope that is not you in your current state of mind : )
ReplyDeleteI actually liked today's crossword. Maybe I was expecting a lot worse. Got stumped on COHO and BEFORE
ReplyDeleteSo Suresh, are you the one who graded this CW as outstanding?
ReplyDeleteWhoever did it must have emulated the student who told his friends that he is an outstanding student in his class!! (He was always standing outside)
I did not grade or de-grade today's CW since I am not licenced to practice psychiatry, other than for self-evaluation purposes.
ReplyDeleteSea ore is a type of seeweed - http://everything2.com/title/British+food+seaweeds
ReplyDeleteColonel@10:06 :D
Bhavan, your BEF reminded me of SHAEF under Ike and which had Bradley and Montogomery amongst others.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the extra No=o in Monty's name.
ReplyDeleteGood morning
ReplyDeleteA typical NJ offering.
6D is my COD.
4 OR 5 words for me.
Mathu
See, even Sandhya ended up with the same, inspite of my crooked logic. Dont ask me why it is oar in my version and ore in her version. :-)
ReplyDeleteWould it be correct to call a COHO a COD ?
ReplyDeleteDeepak, I was wondering who rated it Outstanding myself. I rated it Satisfactory. Maybe NJ herself gave the OS rating
ReplyDeleteMy mom's crosswords are always the best. She strives for excellence and reaps the awards. Am a proud son.
ReplyDeleteSo many issues with this, and as NJ has nearly removed my will to live, will only throw up one example - an exorcist doesn't practice black magic but is using good forces to combat evil. The whole exercise with NJ turns into a mad guessing game rather than being led elegantly to the solution by the setter.
ReplyDelete@David : If I were you, I'd exorcise such thoughts immediately. Today is only the first of six days : )
ReplyDeleteDavid is perfectly correct with his definition of exorcist.
ReplyDeleteHello Abhay,
ReplyDeleteWelcome to my blog. Glad to know that your mom has a proud son. Hopefully the comments here on this blog will help your Mom to excel further and reap many more awards.
On behalf of all the visitors to my blog and myself, I wish her all the best in her endeavours, kindly convey our good wishes to her and request her to take our comments in the right spirit.
It would also be nice if she could come up and explain to us her annotation of the clues whenever we get stuck for answers. Other setters of the THC like Neyartha, Sankalak, Spiffytrix, Gridman and Cryptonyte have come up on occasions and given us explanations.
Nice to have a child appreciate the mother's work :)
ReplyDeleteRef Nita Jaggi's son, Abhay's, comment at 11:07
@Colonel: Liked the response to Abhay's comment.
ReplyDeleteHi Deepak Gopinath
ReplyDeleteMy mom is just becoming used to the ways of the Internet. I promise she will, once the required level of familiarity is attained. Thanks for your kind words. I will convey her your regards.
I understand many of you in this blog do not, in general, like my mother's crosswords. That's perfectly fine, as it got to do with individual's tastes. But comments like "Vox populi, vox Dei" are totally unwarranted. This group is hardly a representative sample of the total crowd which solves THC everyday. If I am right, there are hardly 10-15 regulars commenting and venting their reactions in this blog.
@Deepak: Second Sandy's comment at 1233
ReplyDeleteMy mother may not be familiar with the rules and regulations imposed in British crosswords. Her work may not fall strictly within the ambit of a cryptic crossword. But then, there are people who do not care about those sort of details, who also enjoy the THC. Housewives, office goers who barely have 20 minutes to peer upon a crossword, learners etc who never want to be au fait with intricate rules.
ReplyDeleteIt is fine to find faults in her work, but please do remember, this is an art. I hope you do not tell your child, "You should bat like Sachin" or "You should draw like Picasso". It will be counterproductive, as they will begin endeavouring to become the 'Black Swan' that they aren't.
If the newspaper imposes some rules for the crossword and its clues, I am sure, mom will abide by them and still set clues that are pleasing to the amateurs and professionals (like the ones on this blog) alike.
Hi Abhay,
ReplyDeleteAgree with you on the comments. We hope to learn further and get some idea of why we are unable to fathom the anno.
Please convey our Best Wishes to your Mom.
Hi Abhay, agree with your sentiments about the target audience for the crossword.
ReplyDeleteAll I ask is for the clue to be fair to the solver. Whether it strictly follows any rules and regulations (British or Indian) is irrelevant to me.
I do hope to interact with your mother in this forum.
While I admit I had posted 'Vox populi, vox Dei' at 1212, I realised it might be a little too sharp and deleted it before Abhay's 1237 was posted.
ReplyDeleteSorry, if I hurt you, Abhay.
@abhay I agree that crossword setting is an art, and each setter has their own signature. Getting to grips with different compilers is like learning a new language with it's special syntax and idioms. My frustration stems from the fact that I don't speak "NJ" yet - which is why I would welcome your mother explaining her annotations, and hopefully I would soon become fluent by following her guidance. Never a bad thing having another Tongue in ones repertoire (says the man who is desperately struggling with Malayalam)
ReplyDeleteKishore, It is fine. It is a merely a clash of opinions.
ReplyDeleteFor those who are asking about annotations to clues, I promise to ask mom to recheck the clues before sending them.
At the same time, I do see the owner of this blog has managed to nearly complete and annotate most of the clues in all of her crosswords, just as he has managed in the work of every other setter. Some of the comments under some posts paint the picture of an utter balderdash of a crossword. If that were true, I am sure the owner would have boycotted mom's crosswords completely and gone on to solve and post something else on those days.
If it is an erratic clue, Mom will take full responsibility. If it is about poor surfaces or not being cryptic enough or the usage of weird words or not quite familiar abbreviations, the onus is on the solver to appreciate and cotton on to them.
Another kind request to members is to stop comparing different setters. Garnering reactions on a crossword is fine, but opinion polls on who the best setter is, look downright cheap and childish. Everyone can have personal preferences, but the whole never equals the sum of parts.
ReplyDelete(Ref:
http://www.crosswordunclued.com/2009/0/by-lines-for-thc-compilers.html)
Please understand that there are very many efficient solvers who do not visit this forum (and other similarly popular ones). Their voices may never be heard. For them, a crossword is as good as a sudoku. They give a honest go at solving and check out the missed answers the next morning.
Thanks for all your wishes. Good luck solving!
Nice words Abhay
ReplyDeleteAt last we have heard NJs version and opinions on setting and solving. I believe no one is against the setter but some parts of the setting. As the opinion is almost unanimous on NJ there is no point in pin pointing someone for or against. When so may setters comparison is inevitable. It is neither childish nor cheap in my opinion. Afterall comparisons made will only make the setters and solvers become interested and focused always.
Mathu
Abhay, now that we have your ear, here are a few thoughts:
ReplyDelete...I promise to ask mom to recheck the clues before sending them ...
The problem is not at the submission end. Which is why we were hoping your mom can step in and explain here. I admit she is under no obligation to do so, but it might be mutually beneficial.
...Some of the comments under some posts paint the picture of an utter balderdash of a crossword...
If it is about poor surfaces or not being cryptic enough or the usage of weird words or not quite familiar abbreviations, the onus is on the solver to appreciate and cotton on to them...
The gripe is generally about how an answer is derived. Sometimes that is what matters more than just knowing the answer. While there is no problem with the usage of obscure words et al, poor surfaces do pose a challenge. If a sentence doesn't make any sense on the face of it, how am I to unearth the hidden meaning ?
...stop comparing different setters. ... opinion polls on who the best setter is, look downright cheap and childish. Everyone can have personal preferences but the whole never equals the sum of parts...
But I thought that is precisely what the blog* you quoted was doing - invited people to state their preference. It wasn't an evaluation of all THC setters on their clueing ability; purely a representation of the pulse of ordinary solvers (however small a fraction of the actual numbers).
*No, I'm not the owner of that blog : )
Thanks again for dropping by and giving us a patient hearing.
Abhay, while most do check the next day or even get the word either by themselves or in this forum, the anno intended by the setter eludes them as the next day's paper does not give the anno. A wee bit of explanation of the intended anno would help us get into the mind of the setter.
ReplyDeleteBTW, do you yourself solve THCs ? If you do, you will get what I mean...
Abhay. I appreciate your views. However, it is inevitable that people compare crosswords for their quality and in the process since each setter has their own style we end up comparing the setters themselves.
ReplyDeletePersonal preferences apart what I look for, (or looked for even in the days when I used to do them in a more casual way) is correctness in grammar, smooth surface reading and no errors in printing. These, in my view, are necessary for good quality puzzles. Difficult, easy, type of clues, use of certain expressions etc are matters of personal preference and the setter can have some leeway.
WHY SO SERIOUS is what comes to mind when I read some of the comments written on this blog.
ReplyDeleteI liked the way Abhay's defended his mom. I don't know what his age is but he sure has shown great maturity. WTG Abhay! I also agree with most of what he's said.
I feel there are only two kinds of clues if you have to look at it objectively. One, FAIR and another one, NOT SO FAIR. Everything else is, as Abhay says, a matter of preference. Even the aspect of FAIRNESS might not seem as objective as we think.
Meghna. thanks for lightening the mood. Yes we are all happy to have Abhay in the blog.
ReplyDeleteAnd you are damn right on objectivity. We cannot even agree on which is a good Dictionary and whether online dictionaries are any good.
We have a lot of time on our hands and not like those majority who hurriedly do the cw on the way to work.
The best that can be said with NJ's puzzle today is that its attracting new visitors and diverse comments.
ReplyDeleteCheers
Now that we have a lightened atmosphere, courtesy Meg:
ReplyDeleteIn 1930, the Aga Khan announced a prize of £500 to the first Indian who would fly solo between England and India, starting at either end, within one month. Among the competitors was a young man called Manmohan Singh. It was reported that his spirit was willing but his navigation was weak.
Twice he left England with a flourish to fly to India. Twice he lost his way over Europe and had to fly back to England to start all over again. CG Grey, Editor of The Aeroplane observed: "Mr Manmohan Singh has called his aeroplane 'Miss India' and he is likely to!"
Incidentally, the prize went to Aspy Engineer (2nd Indian to be chief of the IAF) and JRD Tata was a close second. Manmohan Singh actually landed before Aspy but was disqualified on technical grounds (as he took more than the stipulated one month due to time lost by landing in a swamp).
Another aside, again with an air link:
Can you name a famous Colonel who was in the air force, then the army and then the air force again, with different names and ranks, incidentally a fairly frequent visitor in our crosswords ?
I appreciate Suresh's point of view. I see that solving crosswords is more than just a hobby for some of you people. Good luck with that!
ReplyDeleteI can't help but notice, this place is like a haven for tongue-in-cheekers.
Some clarifications :
ReplyDeleteAfterall comparisons made will only make the setters and solvers become interested and focused always.
Well, conflicts and comparisons are an essential part of the human psyche. Haven't we been writing answers to "Distinguish between A and B" type questions from our childhood? But certain skills that are not quantifiable, are best let alone. And I do not think Sachin improves his batting depending on fan feedback or press criticism!
If a sentence doesn't make any sense on the face of it, how am I to unearth the hidden meaning?
Do you people start maintaining a statistic of the proportion of meaningful clues and devious surfaces? The ordinary solvers that I am talking about look only at deriving the answer. They do not sit back gazing in awe and contentment at
a fully finished grid.
...purely a representation of the pulse of ordinary solver
Who the ordinary solver? The ones in US/Ind who finish the online version at 2 AM IST? Or the one who posts all answers
at a fixed time everyday? Or the one who religiously tries to make a sentence out of the words used in the grid? Or some
others who apprise others on what certain words reminisce to them? Or a setter who goes back to his huge database and recounts
how he had clued a word in the days of yore? Or certain others who continuously keep tabs on the comments made on this site even
in the midst of their office work? The ones I call 'ordinary' are, for example, the ones who complete the grid and when enquired
about Mom later, say, "Nita Jaggi? The name seems familiar to me..."; the ones who are blissfully unaware of these blogs and technical
aspects, the ones for whom crosswords are just one pastime. They do not care about the 'intended anno'; they do not strive to get
100%; except possibly on Saturdays, do not even get back to the previous day's crossword.
I reinforce this, you people are extremely passionate and gifted solvers. Absolutely no offence was meant in the above comment. I do not want to put in arbitrary statistics, but you people are a tiny fraction of the solvers' community.
(however small a fraction of the actual numbers)
ReplyDeleteThat is not how statistics works.
the next day's paper does not give the anno
The blog owner cracks a lot of them himself. It is very difficult to see a scenario where the anno escapes this elite group.
Also I suspect you people have set imaginary benchmarks for setters. When you see 5 anagrams in a crossword, you say the setter relies a lot
on anagrams. You write an article titled 'Charade Overdose' in the same case for charades. You frown upon seeing more than one 'At the end of the day'
or 'regularly'. Honestly, no one can be all things to all people. By the way, do you know anyone who maintains a proportion of these devices used in
his/her grids? It is always tough for a setter to appease solvers for whom a completed grid is not enough.
I may not have raised concerns about the stats on crosswordunclued, but it is a wonderfully informative blog. The blog is very likely to aid someone who just starts on cryptics by googling. The newcomer should not be misled into false conclusions about setters' prowesses.
Once again, good luck solving. Enjoy crosswords, then go ahead to enjoy life. Little point in living a life with zero satisfaction whatsoever. Have fun!
Wow! I missed a great discussion today!
ReplyDeleteAbhay, welcome and please accept my sincere thanks for addressing so many concerns regarding your mom's CWs.
For the record, I marked today's CW as "good", although there have been days when I would have ranked them "poor". Like you said, that's just a matter of opinion. Personally, I look for consistency in any setter. For this reason, I consider Sankalak as one of the most consistent setters for THC. On the other extreme is Manna, who can set phenomenal CWs and follow them up with stuff that seems like it was set by someone else! :) As long as we don't get personal in our judgement, I think it's ok.
I believe that another reason for some of the negativity (not necessarily warranted!), is the lack of feedback. This has been voiced by others too. I do agree with you that this is an "elite" community compared to the "ordinary solver". As a result, expectations are also higher. And when questions go unanswered, it leaves a bit of resentment inside.
Now that you have made an appearance here, and expressed your and your mom's thoughts... I think it goes a long way towards assuaging the feelings of many solvers who feel like they deserve to know "why". :)
Either way, I'm sure you will see a reduction in the "harshness" of some of the comments to your mom's CWs in the future. :) It has been acknowledged by the harshest critics here, that setting CWs is a tremendously challenging task. And doing it for 6 days is that much harder. I do wish to acknowledge your mom's efforts at churning out so many CWs for our solving pleasure. Please convey my thanks and also that of many others.
Happy solving/setting! :-)
Having considered your response and weighed the benefits of continuing this discussion, I've decided to call it a day, not least because it is past 11.00 PM : )
ReplyDeleteHere's to a hopefully better puzzle tomorrow.
Cheers
CV Sir, Where are you? Why silent? Expert comments (on discussions) Lala.
ReplyDeleteAbhay. One last comment.
ReplyDeleteSolvers are solving crosswords as a hobby. The setter is doing it as a 'profession' or vocation and hence needs to be professional in approach. Grammatical errors, printing mistakes, bad surface reading all make for poor clues.
The predominance or absence of a particular type of clue may not reflect on the setter and is a matter of personal preference.
But poor quality cannot be accepted on a regular basis.