Thursday, 22 November 2012

No 10625, Thursday 22 Nov 12, Klue Klux Klan

KKK's as devious as ever. No clue on 11A.

ACROSS
1   Language of the man and his beer (6) HEBREW {HE}{BREW}
4   Few caught in panic (6) SCARCE {SCAR{C}E}
9   Give away on stage, for the most part (4) STAG STAGe
10 Copy, say, of Chennai locality with tea for bridge players (10) TRIPLICATE {TRIPLICA(-n+t)TE}
11 Well beloved herder? (6) OILMAN ? (Addendum PIGMAN [GK] - See comments)
12 Images of mostly epic books (8) EPITOMES {EPIc}{TOMES}
13 Galore of gallant takeovers (9) BEAUCOUPS {BEAU}{COUPS}
15 Mistress of the French valet? (5) LEMAN {LE}{MAN}
16 Period of retrospective hope overwhelms hundred (5) EPOCH {EPO{C}H<=}
18 Watch wager for Batman, say (9) VIGILANTE {VIGIL}{ANTE}
22 Looking forward to defend worker (8) GUARDANT {GUARD}{ANT}
23 Say no to garbage! (6) REFUSE [DD]
25 Flexibility about one in silence (10) RESILIENCE {RE}{SIL{1}ENCE}
26 King’s mate in castle? (4) ROOK [GK]
27 Beheaded cat-like confusing movie (6) TALKIE {cAT+LIKE}*
28 Limited sex appeal in hunky-dory surroundings (6) FINITE {FIN{IT}E}

DOWN
1   Direct connection confused the lion? (7) HOTLINE*
2   Lady from Belgium missing long intricate initials (5) BEGUM BElGiUM
3   Fret about antidote missing one vitamin (3,4) EAT INTO {ANTIdOTE}*
5   Gutter for son-less disfigured scullions (6) CULLIS SCULLIons8
6   Jesus Christ Superstar, for one, to sway in semi-open period (4,5) ROCK OPERA {ROCK} {OPen}{ERA}
7   Hold them in additional peaks (7) EXTREMA {EXTR{EM}A} No such word in Chambers
8   Very funny parting around day in March, say (13) SIDESPLITTING {S{IDES}PLITTING}
14 Unfriendly stormy rain cloud (9) UNCORDIAL*
17 Be careful of puritan’s book (7) PRUDENT {PRUDE}{NT}
19 Decapitated British PM becomes an Asian (7) ISRAELI dISRAELI
20 Regular tours painful for silk producing moth (7) TUSSORE {ToUrS}{SORE}
21 Cocktail disheartened Italian poet (6) MARINI MARtINI Should have been MARINO (See comments)
24 At a distance, note language (5) FARSI {FAR}{SI}

60 comments:

  1. Would Gladstone have been glad to see Disraeli decapitated? KKK continues to behead. Had a little doubt about use of plural for bridge partners in 10a, as only one N goes out of Triplicane.

    ReplyDelete
  2. 11 Well beloved herder? (6) OILMAN ?

    Took it as PIGMAN. Wellbeloved being Lord Elmsworth's pigman or herder. The herd of course contains only one pig, to wit, the Empress of Blandings.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Above is mere justification of what I penned in. KKK might not have intended this answer. My Plum-p friends will recall George Cyril Wellbeloved and his eminent colleagu Pirbright and the piggy wiggy Monica Simmons.

      Wellbeloved, being one of those British names like Younghusband, Sidebottom and Carstairs.

      Delete
    2. And Sir Gregory Parsloe's pig man in half the stories ( Parsloe having lured him away with his filthy gold )

      Delete
  3. 21 Cocktail disheartened Italian poet (6) MARINI MARtINI Should have been MARINO

    Freedictionary shows both spellings.

    ReplyDelete
  4. 26 King’s mate in castle? (4) ROOK [GK]

    Castle playing double role:
    Castle as in the chess move, in which the King's mate (partner) is the ROOK
    Castle by itself being the def for ROOK

    ReplyDelete
  5. 7 Hold them in additional peaks (7) EXTREMA {EXTR{EM}A} No such word in Chambers

    I took it in line with Maxima and Minima from Maths

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe, but the word does not appear in any dictionary whereas Maxima and Minima does

      Delete
    2. I too am unable to find any ref. for EXTREMA.

      If we enter 'extrema' on the Internet search engine, we are led to 'extremum'. Fine, but thee is no entry for 'extrema'.

      Can we take 'extrema' as an inflection of 'extremum'. If so, is it a plural or what?

      I don't get any return for 'extrema' in word pattern search software, either.

      Only the setter can explain.

      Delete
    3. 2 or 3 puzzles is probably not enough to assess a setter, but I thought this puzzle was a complete departure from KKK's last two offerings - too many gimmes in the non-anagram, non-hidden clues and a few surfaces that don't make much sense (to me).

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    4. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extrema

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  6. If 'extrema' is the plural form of 'extremum',

    here are some suggestions:

    begum - bega
    mum - ma
    bum - ba
    . . .
    . . .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And a series of hesitations, going " ...um..um...um.." , could be simplified as 'a'

      Delete
  7. How would a decapitated British PM become an Asian? Seriously, how does it work.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. On the cryptic side, Disraeli loses his head and becomes an Israeli, but on the surface, well ... its over my head, guillotined or otherwise...

      Delete
  8. Yea I got the cryptic part. What I was wondering was how it could possibly happen in a real world scenario.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. See

      http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1359264

      Delete
  9. Hello!

    First, apologies for the typo. The intended clue was indeed 'Wellbeloved' and not 'well beloved'. I had submitted it in the former state but I guess there has been some goof up. I apologize for that.

    Extrema is the plural of extremum, or so I think, anyway. Did confirm it with a couple of dictionaries but perhaps it is not in wide usage in non math/engg contexts. Once again, sorry about that.

    Bhavan sir, re the nature of this puzzle, well, after the feedback from the last puzzle which a lot of people said was too difficult (on some levels) and did not really have a foothold for a solver to latch on to (something I got as a comment from a solver I respect greatly), I thought I'd make it slightly more straightforward.

    Perhaps it has become too simple. Also, re the surface reading, yes, sir. When I do look at it now, I feel that I could well have made it better.


    Thank you for the most valuable feedback. Will try and incorporate it into the next offering. Any other feedback (both positive and more importantly negative) I would gladly welcome for it can only help me make better puzzles.

    Cheers!

    ReplyDelete
  10. I find EXTREMA in my OED as a plural of Extremum. Wonder why others could not locate it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Like I mentioned earlier, it's not in Chambers

      Delete
  11. Very enjoyable puzzle. Only gap I had was the anno for Pigman, which has been amply addressed in this blog.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Beaucoups was a 'bit too much' for me.

    ReplyDelete
  13. 15A- "mistress OF the French valet"

    What part does 'OF' play? It led me to DE. Could it be "or"? Or just a comma after mistress?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of plays no part, it's just there for the surface reading

      Delete
    2. in which case wouldn't 'The French valet's mistress' have been a better way of wording it ?

      Delete
  14. Felt today's puzzle was pretty interesting except for the clues where part of the answer was given away in the clues (e.g. 9A, 12A, 16A, 25A and 2D)

    ReplyDelete
  15. ABCDE:

    Solitaire is Job's claim to fame ? (8)

    ReplyDelete
  16. To carry over a discussion from yesterday's crossie

    VP: Thanks for the explanation. Yes, I have heard "cutting" used here in India the way you describe it. Even more so in the TASMAC context (where I guess cutting is used as a slang for a quarter ?). To clarify, I have no problems with the surface as such. It makes complete sense to me. It is perhaps just one of the things which is stuck in my head - that an adjective definition should be defined by an adjective to be absolutely fair.

    I'd have to disagree on that. It is the setter's job to trick. One of the tools in his arsenal is the employment of some parts of speech in ways that suggest they are other parts of speech.

    This is one of my preferred means of misdirection .I have employed it as in yesterdays 14d :18-year-old chap takes ringroad leading to entrance of TASMAC for cutting and also in previous crosswords. For instance in Skullduggery #1 I had: Entrance for Wayne Manor demolished! New way out.(6). The clue when parsed offers entrance as noun, but the answer is arrived by employing the verb definition of entrance. ( The answer to this was enamor,btw).

    I think this sort of thing is fair. What's the general consensus on this?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I had the exact question & had mailed a seasoned setter regarding this a few days back. His response seems to indicate that this misdirection is fair.

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    2. I do not see any problem with relation to this.

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    4. Skuldugger, Thanks for carrying this point over for discussion.

      My view on this topic has been set (perhaps incorrectly ?) from Manley's Crossword Manual where there is a discussion on what is fair and what is not. From my understanding, its perfectly ok using misdirections with verb vs noun forms in the general word play, whereas when it comes to the definition, the part of speech must be maintained (barring some exceptions of verb and noun definitions as illustrated there).

      Maybe my own understanding is not accurate, would be great to hear more thoughts on this.

      Delete
  17. Replies
    1. Solitaire is Job's claim to fame ? (8)

      Solitaire=def, a card game, also called Patience
      Job , of Biblical fame, renowned for his patience
      like patience on a monument

      Delete
    2. Happy thanks giving holidays :-)

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    3. Thanksgiving is a time when major national calamities can occur: The fall of Turkey, break up of China and spilling of Greece.

      Delete
    4. Thanks Kishore... Not so familiar with scriptures.

      Delete
  18. Thank you Kishore. we have been missing you all these days!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Yes, in a clue, the def for the word reqd can be in one part of speech while in the surface reading it is used in a different part of speech.

    Take

    18-year-old chap takes ringroad leading to entrance of TASMAC for cutting (7)

    A charade with a c/c. Good wordplay.

    Here 'cutting' is a word ending in -ing (what do they call this part of speech? Gerund?) I am woefully inadequae when it comes to grammatical terms.

    However, as the def for word reqd, it is adj.

    Though the trick works, I feel this clue is not a very good example of a clue where this sort of switcheroo occurs. I am unable to explain why. It is only a feeling.

    Take this published UK crossword clue:

    Remains precisely how he is (5)

    The ans for this charade is ASHES - AS HE'S.

    Now, 'remains' is verb in ? present continuous tense? in the surface reading; but as def for word reqd it is noun.

    I have some other observations to make:

    We don't start a sentence with a figure/numeral.. It should have been "Eighteen-year-old ..."

    And one goes to a TASMAC shop/outlet/bar/booth - not the corporation - for drinking.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the detailed explanation on the "switcheroo". Pretty clear now. Time for "cutting" perhaps :)

      Delete
  20. Add:

    I too have not heard the use of 'cutting' to mean 'drinking'.

    Must be college lingo.

    I do not object to the use of the word in that little-known sense not supported even by the freedictionary or urban dictionary (or os it?) - we have learnt something today.

    Cutting I did mildly some days ago with friends but not knowing that I was cutting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. cutting is a familiar word in Chennai bars/Tasmacs for a quarter.

      Delete
  21. What do you say?

    (To the shopkeeper) Enakku oru 'cutting' kudu?

    (To a friend) Vaada, naanga rendu paerum oru 'cutting' kudikkalaam.

    I thought 'cutting' meant 'drinking'. Does it mean only a quarter?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. oru cutting pottu thoongalam

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    2. Ennappaa... oru cutting pottaalae thookam vandhudumaa?

      Delete
    3. usually it is the final session.

      oru cutting koode pottu :-P

      Delete
  22. We are familiar with cutting classes, but cutting glasses?!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Sorry if I am boring...

    If 'cutting' does not mean 'drinking' but only 'a quarter' the clue should have read

    18-year-old chap takes ringroad leading to entrance of TASMAC for a cutting (7) {when the switcheroo cannot happen]

    Also, shouldn't ring road be two words?

    ReplyDelete
  24. I guess 'cutting' means different things to different people. While I am familiar with 'cutting quarter' or 'cutting' to indicate just the quarter itself,it has evolved in my circle to mean just the act of drinking itself.

    The idea that 18 should be written as eighteen I will never reconcile with. I can't think of one reason for it. It seems to me akin in tone to those inane injunctions against beginning a sentence with a preposition. This is just the kind of thing up with which I will not put.

    And nobody goes to a TASMAC shop/outlet to cut. One goes to a TASMAC.Take it from somebody who goes to one. Just as nobody goes to a KFC franchise for lunch or a McDonalds outlet for dinner.One eats at KFC or McDonalds. The name of the brand has become interchangeable with the name of the outlet in the demotic.

    I guess the clue rankles slightly when it comes to the switcheroo because the more common formulation in this case would be "going to cut" rather than " going for cutting". Ah well, one lives and learns. In any case, one lives.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oops. That should have read : injunctions against ENDING a sentence with a preposition.

      Delete
  25. "This is just the kind of thing up with which I will not put."

    I don't know much about grammar, but " This is just the kind of thing which I will not put up with." sounds easy on the ears and to understand too.

    Well, opinion differs. One thing we have to agree. One lives & learns.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is just the kind of thing which I will not put up with." sounds easy on the ears and to understand too.

      Precisely. So it is indeed okay to end a sentence with a preposition.And I hope we can also deep-six the idea that one can't begin a sentence with a conjunction.

      Delete
  26. SKULLDUGGER" "This is just the kind of thing up with which I will not put."
    This appears to be a quote of Winston Churchill?A sentence that ends with a preposition.

    This is not Queen's English and Churchill was the Prime Minister of Britain.

    I'd like to know the context in which he must have replied so, as he was known to be a man with a ready cutting sarcastic wit. Who told him what for him to retort so?

    ReplyDelete

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