Friday, 13 April 2018

No 12290, Friday 13 Apr 2018, KrisKross


Today being Friday only the blank clues will be posted. All those who are silent followers of the blog are requested to post answers with annotations in the comments section. In your own interest please avoid looking up the answers from the interactive version. Don't hesitate to post your annotations, in case you make a mistake someone will correct it with the right annotation.

Please note a change. Each commenter is requested to post only 5 answers till 2 PM thereby giving others also a chance to participate. 

The regular blog will replace the clues at 2 PM after which anyone is free to comment. 

Thanks everyone for the response. Here is the regular blog

ACROSS
1   Best to eat pastry and tarts (8) TROLLOPS {T{ROLL}OPS}
5   Mist over river or brook (6) STREAM {ST{R}EAM}
9   Stupid one climbed building with energy, dropped dead (8) IMBECILE {1}{CLIMBEd}*{E}
10 Smash a rogue operation (6) IMPACT {IMP}{ACT}
12 House of gold constructed by engineer (5) LODGE {GOLD}*{E}
13 See through phoney admirer's technique to procure something (4,5) MAIL ORDER {LO} in {ADMIRER}*
14 Medicine that could make you sick (6) EMETIC [CD]
16 In Atlanta, Jimmy's won the highest grade — congratulations! (7) PRAISES {PR{A}ISES} Why 'In Atlanta'? This is a normal spelling for 'prise' See comments
19 Maybe changes "Mumbai" to "Bombay" again, by illegal means (7) RENAMES {RE}{MEANS*}
21 Flying early, pilot finally gets wings (6) ELYTRA {EARLY+p..oT}*
Maybug.jpg
23 Batman perhaps rose up in confusion welcoming that lady (9) SUPERHERO {ROSE+UP}* over {HER}
25 Sinuses of man transplanted (5) ANTRA [T]
26 Request a person: "Go away!" (6) BEGONE {BEG}{ONE}
27 Mostly solitary girl playing host — she is unlikely to succeed (4,4) LONG SHOT {LONe}{G} {HOST}*
28 Opening of warehouse in ancient Rome, that is most spacious (6) WIDEST {W}{ID EST}
29 Expression of surprise at how the dragon was killed? (2,6) BY GEORGE [C&DD]

DOWN
1   Thief's beginning to steal a small amount (6) TRIFLE {Th..f}{RIFLE}
2   Investigator shoots many in Asian country (9) OMBUDSMAN {OM{BUDS}{M}AN}
3   At last, solver cracks cryptic clue to get money (5) LUCRE {s...eR} in {CLUE}*
4   Student immersed in "Gunga Din" say — one about to debate (7) POLEMIC {PO{L}EM}{1}{C}
6   Passing test about poem composed by artist (9) TEMPORARY {T{POEM*}{RA}RY}
7   End of rope to secure animal (5) ELAND {ropE}{LAND}
8   Traveller is wet when crossing mountain (8) MOTORIST {MO{TOR}IST}
11 Speech defect from chapped lips? (4) LISP*
15 Fruits, primarily tangy, pureed in Madras (9) TAMARINDS {Ta..y}{IN+MADRAS}*
17 Emergency transportation for a Yogi? (9) STRETCHER [DD]
18 Angry Bob's weapon (8) CROSSBOW {CROSS}{BOW}
20 KrisKross for one has no time to become a wise man (4) SEER SEttER
21 Careful spending and distribution of money protects firm (7) ECONOMY {E{CO}NOMY*}
22 Baby's dinner? (6) RATTLE [Punny CD]
24 Called company to pack stuff (5) PAGED {PA{GE}D}
25 View fish (5) ANGLE [DD]

GRID

126 comments:

  1. 23ac superhero her(that lady) in rose up
    15dn tamarinds t(angy) in madras(anagram)
    9ac imbecile i(one)+ climbed-d
    7dn eland (rop) e land (secure)
    11dn lisp(lips)

    ReplyDelete
  2. Nice puzzle. Thank you Ramki Sir!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Surprising that there are no solutions after the firs 5 by Jayalakshmi at 7:13 !

    ReplyDelete
  4. guess it's because it is open only for silent commentator;

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Does that mean there are no more silent followers?

      Delete
    2. I dont think so. There would be innumerable silent followers.

      Delete
  5. Replies
    1. Thris usage is First time in my limited experience. So checking.

      Delete
    2. What sree_sree means is can the deletion instruction be taken to remove every instance of T from the fodder. We do write clues where the deletion ind is interpreted to mean 'delete only one instance of the letter'.
      Shouldn't all setters follow a particular convention or at least shouldn't a particular setter follow a convention consistently?
      The same instruction wouldn't do for removal of a single instance in one clue and all all instances in another.

      Delete
    3. If TIME can be taken to mean terrestrial time, the clue works, I think.

      Delete
    4. then time can also mean IST, UTC, GMT??? TT is a standard not time actually.

      Delete
    5. IMO the clue has only one t to be deleted

      Delete
    6. Yes, we all know this. But what if the Setter decides as such?
      Incidentally, see this link:
      https://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrestrial+time

      Delete
    7. Raghu@10:00: How?
      KrisKross for one=Setter,
      Has no time: Delete T(T)
      Seer=Wise Man: definition

      Delete
    8. I see no problem deleting all the T's in the clue. No time can also mean no time at all.

      Delete
    9. I meant T: time not times or TT

      Delete
    10. KKR thefreedictionary would throw up many abbr for everything. I don't think we can accept all of those.

      Delete
    11. Raghu,
      I am donning the role of Prasad, for a change, protecting the setters!

      Delete
    12. Thank you for the comments and interesting discussion.
      I had used "no time" to remove both instances of "t".
      I had used it in some earlier clues to remove only one instance of a letter, but got the feedback from some veteran setters that it indicates removal of all instances of the letter, and hence changed. Your interpretation could be different :)
      Of course, if there is only one instance of the letter to be removed, there is no ambiguity.
      I believe "t" for "time" (coming from physics) is a fairly common abbreviation in crosswords right? For IST it should be probably "Time in India" or "Time in Chennai" etc IMHO.

      Delete
    13. T for time is agreed. My ref to IST was in resp to KKR@1046,time as tt. My doubt was abt time refering to both Ts as CV explained. I didn't elaborate because I didn't want to give away the answer.

      Delete
    14. I had used T for Times once and a query was raised, which was valid. There is no ref to say that T: Times (In the reverse case of this clue).

      Delete
    15. Imo... time=T. If you want to delete TT, use appropriate abbrev for tt or couple of times.

      Delete
  6. Reference Karthikeyan's comment at 8:37 above. Let's call them non-regular commenters in that case, rather than silent followers.

    ReplyDelete
  7. 1A) T(ROLL)OPS; pastry=ROLL; best=TOPS; defn=tarts
    8D) MO(TOR)IST; wet=MOIST mountain=TOR; defn=traveller
    6D) T(EMPOAR)*RY; test=TRY; artist=AR; POEM; defn=passing
    2D) OM(BUDS)(M)AN ; asian country=OMAN; shoots=BUDS; many=M; defn=investigator
    4D) PO(L)EMIC; student=L; Gunga Din=POEMIC; defn=debate

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ganga Din could only be a poem.

      Delete
    2. stand corrected
      one=I; about=C
      {[PO(L)EM](I)(C)}

      Delete
    3. Anno of 6D also needs correction

      Delete
    4. Had this doubt; but now cleared
      T(POEM)*(RA)RY

      Delete
  8. 19a- RENAMES
    Again= RE, NAMES= Anagram of means

    ReplyDelete
  9. 1d- TRIFLE= small amount
    T= Thief's beginning, RIFLE= steal

    ReplyDelete
  10. 12 a- LODGE=house
    GOLD anagram + E (engineer)

    ReplyDelete
  11. 14 a- EMETIC=medicine to induce vomiting

    ReplyDelete
  12. 13 a- MAIL ORDER= a way of procurement
    LO= see ...inside anagram of ADMIRER

    ReplyDelete
  13. 25A Antra=cavity sinus (T)
    13A see=LO +admirer = MAIL ORDER
    27A lon(-e)g+host = LONG SHOT
    25D ANGLE (DD)

    ReplyDelete
  14. which is the anagram indicator in 16A

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. will raise this later after it is solved;
      I thought part of the solution is involving anagram

      Delete
    2. Col got it; there's no anagram anywhere; thanks

      Delete
  15. 5a: steam {st(r)eam) = brook
    17d: stretcher (DD)
    18d: crossbow {cross(=angry)}{bob(=bow)} = weapon
    20d: seer {se(-tt)er = wise man
    (removal of 't' twice is under duscussion)
    21d: economy {co} inside {money}* = careful spending

    ReplyDelete
  16. 10A impact rogue-imp, operation-act
    29A By George Dragon slayer

    ReplyDelete
  17. Replies
    1. R+CLUE will give you RCLUE? It is to be indicated as r-last sover in anagram of clue

      Delete
  18. 22D Rattle -Noise(din) maker, toy

    ReplyDelete
  19. Replies
    1. You need to try to give the annotation

      Delete
  20. Replies
    1. You need to try to give the annotation even if it is wrong

      Delete
  21. Replies
    1. It's an anagram of EARLY and T from pilot

      Delete
  22. 26A. BEGONE. request - beg, a person -one.

    ReplyDelete
  23. 24 d : paged
    GE ... company
    Pad stuff

    ReplyDelete
  24. 28A WIDEST (most spacious) W(wearhouse) id est ( i.e.that is in ancient Rome)

    ReplyDelete
  25. Can I attempt? this will be sixth one for me;

    ReplyDelete
  26. The bouncer and the dancer - Part 7

    BY GEORGE!

    The attempt by the Romanian thus proved to be a LONG SHOT! The incident did RATTLE those around.
    And the IMPACT? Our bouncer became a local SUPER HERO!! Praises flowed as it was proved he was no SEER.
    The ANGLE of his bashes and their ECONOMY made many eyes open the WIDEST in awe.
    With his new found fame he opened a LODGE to go with the Dine and Dance to enhance his income.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank god he is not in atlanta.

      Delete
    2. :-)
      Serial is going good and our friend, the bouncer, seems to be on a roll!

      Delete
  27. 16A) Jimmy = lever = prise; Jimmy's = PRISES;
    highest grade = A
    Jimmy's won the highest grade = PR(A)ISES
    Defn: Congratulations
    Guess In Atlanta is provided for smoother surface reading
    PRAISES is the solution

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. atlanta is the key to the clue, my understanding

      Delete
    2. my initial anno was
      Jimmy = lever = PRESS
      Atlanta = A
      highest grade = I
      AI in (PRESS)* = praises
      but that doesn't explain the 'S' in Jimmy's and also the anagram indicator for (PRESS)*
      May be I am missing the right anno

      Delete
    3. My take is
      16d: praises {ai} in {pres's}*
      where
      ai = highest grade
      Pres's = president's
      (Jimmy = jimmy Carter = former US President)

      Delete
    4. What is the anagram indicator for PRESS even if we assume Pres is short form for President and Jimmy Carter is from Atlanta

      Delete
    5. I too noticed it. But this is one possible solve. Experts to help us.

      Delete
    6. Already three possible anno's; let's wait and see if there are more & what the correct anno is

      Delete
    7. Your anno at 11:35 is correct

      Delete
    8. Oops! What I had in mind was just PRISES (Jimmy's) around A

      I thought "prise" was a US-only usage and "In Atlanta" was just to indicate that. After checking, I realized that I was wrong :( so "In Atlanta" may be unnecessary.

      Jimmy Carter, Pres etc. never entered my head at all :) Sorry if this clue caused some inadvertent confusion!

      Delete
    9. OTOH, I thought this was an excellent clue

      Delete
    10. I thought you used Atlanta to hint Jimmy for prise in American usage [as elsewhere it is known as Jemmy]

      Delete
    11. And I thght "in atlanta" to indicate the accent (as in homophone) pry(ace)s.

      Delete
    12. Ramki - one of the most enjoyable crosswords and very satisfying;
      Yes in Atlanta was superfluous.

      Delete
  28. 20D If the clue reads "KrisKross for one has no time left to become a wise man" there will be no ambiguity in deleting all the t's

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree. "No time at all" would have made it explicit.

      Delete
    2. cdrgani29 thinks like a setter

      Delete
    3. Is it so,Ragunath? Then Thank you,Phantom!

      Delete
  29. 7a:eland: - e(...e)land(se...e)
    2a: stream: st(r)eam
    9a: imbecile - {(i)(climbed-d*)(e..)}
    6d: temporary - {t(poem*)(ar<=)ry}
    15d: tamarinds - {(t)(in madras*)}

    ReplyDelete
  30. Atlanta is A
    Jimmy PRISE
    won PRISE around A
    Highest grade S
    Congratulations is defintion

    ReplyDelete
  31. I want to register my displeasure for 1 across. 'tart' 'trollop' etc are offensive and derogatory words..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My sincere apologies if you found it offensive - that was not my intention.

      Delete
    2. They may be derogatory words. But there is nothing derogatory in the clue as brought out by Ramki.

      Delete
    3. The clue suggests that it's all to do with bakery items, with no ref to that kind of a woman

      Delete
    4. My considered opinion is the word 'tart' or 'trollop' by itself is not offensive. Only when a woman is branded as such it becomes offensive, it is used derogatorily or abusively. The word 'tart' or 'trollop' in the sense of a loose woman cannot be wished away from the dictionaries. 'Angel' in the sense of a good woman or a benevolent person is nothing, only if I say 'Mr Raman is an angel, he donated Rs 10 lakhs to the ashram" or Ms Radha is an angel, she educates her domestic help's school education", it acquires any significance.

      Delete
    5. And 'tart' has the primary meaning of pie while in slang it gets the derogatory sense. In a lighter vein: In a comic strip, PICKLES, Earl Pickles, looking for a word with a meaning between gallop and trot, comes up with trollop, committing a faux pas of course!

      Delete
    6. I didn't find anything derogatory in the clue and as Raghu said the surface totally implied enjoying your bakery goodies.

      Delete
    7. Thanks for the apologies, but it is not me finding it offensive. These are derogatory words one must desist from using unless there is a valid context. All sorts of people from 10-70 do hindu crossword, and this is not a word to add to their vocabulary.

      I did not expect any solidarity for my comment but did not expect menfolk to come out attacking me so strongly. Will you use these words in this meaning in your house? Then why use in the crossword? Why not some other word for the clue? Please give women some respect they deserve.

      Delete
    8. They may be derogatory words. But there is nothing derogatory in the clue as brought out by Ramki.

      I didn't find anything derogatory in the clue and as Raghu said the surface totally implied enjoying your bakery goodies.

      Why use derogatory words at all in crossword? is my question. Will an innocent surface clue for BITCH defining it as a female dog also OK? Then you will justify saying you did not call a particular woman as a BITCH is it?

      Delete
    9. Incidentally, I invite your attention to the following clue in today's cryptic crossword in the Guardian:
      Lawyer, oldest professional? (9)
      Can we call it derogatory?

      Delete
    10. Archi:such prudery seems unwarranted to say the least. There was nothing derogatory in the clue at all. I think you are just out to grab attention. This is a poor way of getting one.

      Delete
    11. KKR: Such a beautiful clue for Solicitor...quite akin to today's trollop..No derogatory allusion in both..

      Delete
    12. Yes, I am of the same view. A particular word can be coined for a derogatory purpose. It is unfortunate that the dictionaries give credence to them.

      Delete
    13. You mean Solicitor is derogatory in dictionary?

      Delete
    14. Vasant, mind your language when talking to women online. I am here to make a point, and it is scary for me to grab your attention.

      In case you didnt bother to check Chambers refers to tart as derogatory slang and Oxford says it is derogatory.

      Delete
    15. Vasant, I didn't want to enter this debate but unquestionably a valid point has been raised. And I definitely do not believe it's attention-seeking. It's a matter of opinion and one must respect that! What's offensive for somebody may not be to another. I personally dont think any offence was meant by setter whatsoever. Having said that, teenagers are solving this as well, as you might know since your daughter solves. Whilst they might know more about the birds and bees than we did, it does not mean we explicitly expose them to this. Perhaps, hence best to avoid such words in the crossword. There is no dearth of words to clue after all!

      Delete
    16. Well said, Satyen.
      I'd avoid anything termed as derogatory slang in dictionaries, and even so, use judgment when using words that may have been funny in the past to describe a gender or group or race, but not so any more. In this case, TFD does not term it as derogatory, but given the meaning, as a male I wouldn't use it; however as a solver I wouldn't mind if the clue was written by a female setter. Words evolve with time and setters have to use their judgement on their usage at that time. I believe Ramki when he said he didn't mean to offend, and knowing him through this and other forums, I'll bet that he'll not use a similar word knowingly in future, and I'd move on. But I agree with Archu about the tone in this thread - hope we guys can be less abrasive, less patriarchal and more congenial in tone when debating a point online.

      Delete
    17. I apologise for the comment.

      Delete
    18. weighing in on the SOLICITOR vs TROLLOP clues - the issue with "trollop" isn't that it has sexual overtones, it's that it's *derogatory and sexist* in nature. archu is quite right - we should no more use words like that than we would racial slurs (which are also in the dictionary!)

      as for the position that trollop simply means "a loose woman" and that it's not derogatory unless you're calling someone a trollop - well, think about what the term "loose woman" even means, why that is considered a shameful thing, and whether a man would be similarly looked down upon for the same behaviour. if anything, objecting to the term is the very opposite of prudery.

      Delete
  32. How is pastry same as roll?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A folded piece of pastry is a roll. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/NMWdZ/PpdMZ/LmPbK/NeoaZ/MhMaZ/KfjpZ/OlfTK/search

      Delete
  33. Informed discussiond on annotations. Enjoyed although my own success rate was poor

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  34. Ramki has very nearly scored a century- of comments!

    ReplyDelete
  35. It IS a century now. Hurray for a Friday.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I had my wifi restored again today after a configuration hitch from Wednesday. Did yesterday and today's crossies now . I loved the MONROE and No more about Maryln in yesterday's. Indeed, she is NO MORE, alas ! What an anagram can do in crosswords !

    In today's by Kriss Kross, the sledge-hammer on a hair debate on the PRAISES clue. However, poor Ramki had such a simple one when he composed this clue. Going from jemmy to Jimmy and his Atlanta state, a sur=prising joiurney in polemics ! Very PRAISEWORTHY !

    POLEMIC= POEMIC? or POETIC? Where did Gunga Din come in the picture?

    What's illegl about changing the name again from Mumbai to Bombay? RE+anagram of MEANS? That means there's an anagram indicator ? illegal?

    SE)-TT)ER : A new take on the usual I and Me for the setter. Tut Tut- Ramki ! or do you say: Touche ?

    All in all, a very exhilarating crossie by Ramki and the healthy debate that followed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunga_Din

      Delete
    2. Long time ago I read a story by Kushwant Singh "The Mark Of Vishnu" whose protagonist was Gunga Din. Never read the poem.

      Delete
    3. Raju:Wi-fi restored almost sounds like reunion with wife😀😀

      Delete
  37. This comment of mine was deleted as it had explicit words. Reinstating with changes....

    Chaturvasi2:31 pm GMT+5:30
    My considered opinion is the word 'tart' or 'trollop' by itself is not offensive. Only when a woman is branded as such it becomes offensive, it is used derogatorily or abusively.

    Then can a crossword also have the f-word, n-word and c-word bcos they r only bad words in general and not targeted at a particular person?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Madam,
    T was away from home last afternoon and evening and so I saw your Comment just now.
    I have said what was needed to be said.
    The question that you have raised - whether I as a crossword setter can/will use four-letter words - is not relevant.
    So I have nothing more to say.

    ReplyDelete
  39. "Will an innocent surface clue for BITCH defining it as a female dog also OK?"

    Yes, yes, yes.

    The word has appeared several times in many reputable UK crosswords (quick/cryptic) though my own database of 1000+ crosswords doesn't show it up, either as a grid fill or as part of any clue.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Sir, there are nude beaches in the UK/US where people strip naked in the summer. Is it alright to do so in India's beaches too? This newspaper has its own sensibilities and has respected those of its readers. While you are entitled to your opinion, I fear the day when I may see these words in the crossword and would urge the editor to set the bar before that happens.

    ReplyDelete