Tuesday, 11 August 2015

No 11470, Tuesday 11 Aug 2015, Incognito


Another good deal from Incognito, which explains his comment a couple of days ago. At this rate we'll all become expert cardsharps!!
ACROSS
1   They may be used to rest bowlers initially having arduous paths (8) HATRACKS {Ha...g}{Ar...s}{TRACKS}
5   Bare minimum at meeting where Latin's peculiar (6) QUORUM {QUO}{RUM}
10 Odd persons' vehicles have just a drop of diesel (5) CARDS {CAR{Di...l}S}
11 Unsold pen may make American perplexed (9) NONPLUSED*
12 Onboard accommodation with engineer's tools (6) SPADES {S{PAD}{E}S}
13 Bits of ice found in baseball stadiums (8) DIAMONDS [DD]
15 Sultana's odd, substituting king with knight (5) QUEEN QUEE(-r+n)N
17 Excessively coach about connected wagons (9) OVERTRAIN {OVER}{TRAIN}
19 Mulish old boys had food around can (9) OBSTINATE {OBS}{TIN}{ATE}
20 Devil's score of 40-40 (5) DEUCE [DD]
21 A police chief's a LSD user (4,4) ACID HEAD {A}{CID HEAD}
23 Human parts found in the art salon (6) HEARTS [T]
27 Confused Good Samaritan gives away hybrid dogs for lady-love (9) INAMORATA {goOd+sAMARATIN}*
28 Discotheque's bashes (5) CLUBS [DD]
29 North American railway has overtime for lawyer (6) NOTARY {N{OT}A}{RY}
30 Relative with little energy in Asia has paralysis (8) AKINESIA {A{KIN}{E}SIA}

DOWN
1   Press breaks into a computer (5) HACKS [DD]
2   Bullies treat hens excitedly (9) THREATENS*
3   Before multiplying, one may be expected to walk down this passage (5) AISLE [CD]
4   Rex's looking, but John's gone (4) KING looKING
6   Great! United Nations published untruth about leading tech institute! (9) UNLIMITED {UN}{LI{MIT}ED}
7   This, when one substitutes first element with nothing, produces colophony (5) ROSIN R(-e+o)OSIN (Addendum - RESIN R(-e+o)OSIN - See comments)
8   Mad dame's perception was logical (4,5) MADE SENSE {DAME}* {SENSE}
9   RAW's peacemakers ready to eat with young hooligan (9) UNRIPENED {UN}{RIPE}{NED}
14 Run amok with handy fruits? (2,7) GO BANANAS {GO} {BANANAS}
15 State price for extract (9) QUOTATION [DD]
16 Horse sound by boy, our next door chap (9) NEIGHBOUR {NEIGH}{B}{OUR}
18 Rum is mixed with water first in fish tanks (9) AQUARIUMS {AQUA}{RUM+IS}* Lucky fish!
22 Unsuitable captain's first command taken away after loss of a circular (5) INAPT cAPTaIN*
24 Old lag seen in Caltex conference (2-3) EX-CON [T]
25 South Africa has abandoned alleged CIA mole (5) SASHA {SA}{HAS*}
26 Knave's vehicle accessory (4) JACK [DD]

GRID

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76 comments:

  1. Kishore11 August 2015 at 08:30

    Apropos the Col.'s over-the-top (;-)) remarks: A wild west sharpshooter pulls out his revolver at the card table and says, "This game is not straight. Slippery Sam ain't playing the cards I dealt him". Cardsharps not sure, but I am practising the harp in anticipation of future requirements. Apologies for forcing one more card deal on you folks at such a short interval, but this arrow had left the bow before Scintillator's turned up.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Kishore11 August 2015 at 08:34

    Re: 18d... they can't have it on the rocks! they would flounder ...but pass away with a smile on their faces

    ReplyDelete
  3. SandhyaP11 August 2015 at 08:36

    7 This, when one substitutes first element with nothing, produces colophony (5) ROSIN R(-s+o)OSIN

    Typo in anno

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kishore11 August 2015 at 08:37

      You are right about the typo, but that ain't the answer... Sandy ...

      Delete
    2. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 08:40

      Why, Why?

      This = RESIN
      when one substitutes
      first element = E
      with nothing = O,
      produces
      colophony = ROSIN ie R(-e+o)OSIN

      Delete
    3. SandhyaP11 August 2015 at 08:42

      I put it as RESIN

      Delete
    4. Kishore11 August 2015 at 08:42

      how did you get resin in the wp, there is no equivalent in the clue. This was supposed to work like this:

      Let the answer=this be X
      X-e+o=ROSIN

      solve for X

      Delete
    5. Kishore11 August 2015 at 08:43

      RESIN is what was intended, Sandy

      Delete
    6. SandhyaP11 August 2015 at 08:44

      Yay :)

      Delete
    7. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 08:53

      Even though it's from the horses mouth (pun not intended), I'm not convinced. What do others say?

      Delete
    8. Vasant11 August 2015 at 08:54

      Your explanation really makes the wp clear..

      Delete
    9. Chaturvasi11 August 2015 at 09:18

      I am late today (was watching a Tamil movie). I would say the clue is ambiguous. It is possible to get ROSIN but RESIN cannot be ruled out.
      If E/O is an unchecked cell, I, as arbiter, would accept either answer as correct.

      Delete
    10. Suresh11 August 2015 at 10:42

      I got RESIN the same way Kishore intended. I think I am learning to decipher his mind. Earlier I could follow 25% of his coments Now it is 26%.

      Delete
    11. Mukundala Balasubramanyam11 August 2015 at 14:45

      What a quantum jump!

      Delete
    12. Kishore11 August 2015 at 18:17

      What mind? Non existent...

      Delete
  4. Mukundala Balasubramanyam11 August 2015 at 08:41

    Nice one..As usual had samosas unless ROSIN is changed to some other answer! Enjoyable outing. Thank you, Incognito.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mukundala Balasubramanyam11 August 2015 at 08:50

      Kishore @ 8:43 a.m. So I lose my samosas! :((

      Delete
    2. Kishore11 August 2015 at 08:55

      But you already 'had' them, MB.... Did you disgorge or regurgitate ...

      Delete
    3. Mukundala Balasubramanyam11 August 2015 at 09:05

      :)

      Delete
    4. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:09

      ... your ill gotten victuals ...

      Delete
    5. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 09:21

      MB no need to regurgitate, see CV's comments at 9:18 above. E/O is in an unchecked cell

      Delete
    6. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:57

      If you have already regurgitated, then you may either unregurgite or just gurgitate, whicois more palatable to you

      Delete
    7. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:58

      *whichever is

      Delete
    8. Mukundala Balasubramanyam11 August 2015 at 14:15

      D G Sir @ 9:21 a.m. Thank you Sir. Nothing left to disgorge...all have been digested...happy now!

      Delete
  5. Vasant11 August 2015 at 08:51

    I had it as Rosin as well...a nice deal...no complaints about the double deal

    ReplyDelete
  6. Kishore11 August 2015 at 08:54

    There's an esoteric connection between this theme and something else on this page ....

    ReplyDelete
  7. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 08:55

    So far that's 3 for ROSIN and 2 for RESIN

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kishore11 August 2015 at 08:57

      Resin is not there in the clue. You cannot reach rosin without having resin in the first place.

      Delete
    2. Bhalchandra Pasupathy11 August 2015 at 09:17

      That seems to be a circular argument Kishore. Rosin is not there in the clue either. So x can be either resin or rosin, and the answer would depend on where you start. The crossings don't help in this case either. Seems to bring to mind CV's comment yesterday?

      Delete
    3. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:18

      Rosin is colophony and is in the clue

      Delete
    4. Chaturvasi11 August 2015 at 09:19

      I have posted my Comment above.

      Delete
    5. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:19

      Of course, rosin is itself a resin, but the interpretation of colophony=resin is ruled out because it cannot be the result of the substitution of e by o.

      Delete
    6. Suresh11 August 2015 at 13:11

      Agree with Kishore. On a coplete reading of the clue I think there is no ambiguity that it has to be RESIN

      Delete
  8. Raghunath11 August 2015 at 08:55

    10A: Purists would frown at the def here having an apostrophe. Had that pointed out in a THCC clue once.

    Like the way you write such simple clues. esp the KING clue.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:01

      I thought punctuation can be ignored... Any how I am not even branded as a libertarian but a libertine ...;-) The king clue also has internal rhyme John gone ...

      Delete
  9. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 08:59

    By the way how do I indicate the Anno for RESIN?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:01

      Algebraic notation

      Delete
    2. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:03

      Or if you prefer, RESIN, when e is substituted with o leads to resin i. e. colophony

      Delete
    3. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 09:04

      ??

      Delete
    4. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:08

      "RESIN, when e is substituted with o leads to resin i. e. colophony"

      or (RESIN-e+o=rosin)

      Delete
    5. Chaturvasi11 August 2015 at 09:23

      How many solvers knew what 'colophony' meant when they did the clue?
      Is it the same as what our violinists dip their finger in when they wield the bow?
      I feel like shouting COLOPHONY when I see that happen the next time I attend a Carnatic music concert at the venerable Academy.

      Delete
    6. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:25

      It is the same CV. Here's a definition from Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary that may amuse you:
      FIDDLE noun

      An instrument to tickle human ears by friction of a horse's tail on the entrails of a cat.

      Delete
    7. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:26

      Non use of colophony may lead to cacophony

      Delete
  10. Chaturvasi11 August 2015 at 09:25

    Write a clue that leads clearly to RESIN or ROSIN. (Kishore is barred from this CWE.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:26

      I will be outstanding the class

      Delete
    2. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 09:41

      First element to substitute nothing in colophony to get this = R(-o+e)ESIN

      Delete
    3. Abhay11 August 2015 at 09:42

      PET Queen turns away from vice (5)

      Pitch for soldiers to revert to vice (5)

      Delete
    4. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 09:43

      Calophony is got from resin when the first element is substituted by nothing = R(-e+o)OSIN

      Delete
    5. VMA Nair11 August 2015 at 10:27

      Commit a mistake again to get this viscous substance (5)

      Delete
    6. Abhay11 August 2015 at 10:49

      Spinner initially held in check by pitch (5)

      Delete
    7. Sumit11 August 2015 at 14:55

      About to do something unholy? It may get sticky! (5)

      Delete
  11. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 09:37

    In all the hullaballoo over resin/rosin, no one has found the esoteric connection mentioned by Kishore in his 8:54 above

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Chaturvasi11 August 2015 at 09:45

      Esoteric is beyond me. Only erotic will hit my eyes (as it does in some of those ads on the screen).

      Delete
    2. Kishore11 August 2015 at 10:02

      The song given below too has a connection to that thing on this page

      Delete
    3. Kishore11 August 2015 at 12:58

      CV, here are your nautch girls playing cards the way you like it:
      Statutory warning: People with cardiac conditions, have somebody at hand, in case help is required ...

      Please Google for "Uniting nations - Out of touch" and goggle

      Delete
    4. Abhay11 August 2015 at 13:01

      Alert to office-goers: NSFW!

      Delete
  12. Chaturvasi11 August 2015 at 09:43

    Re 10a
    Yes, apostrophes are ignored in clues.
    But I am not sure if that is all right in the 10a clue.
    Offhand I would think that it does not - what I mean is the apo here cann't be ignored as it seems to be intrusive between def and wordplay.
    But I am not passing any judgement as I need to look up manuals. I have to return to the movie, you know! This velaiyilla retiree is watching a similar pattadhari.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kishore11 August 2015 at 09:55

      Patta, as you say, given the theme, reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA8RZhnIwMc

      Delete
  13. Abhay11 August 2015 at 09:48

    Had fun with this one, Kishore - thank you! I loved the clues for KING and INAMORATA. I can't recall the last time I saw "odd" used more than once without at least one instance leading to picking of alternate letters.

    Thanks to DG for the blog.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Abhay11 August 2015 at 09:55

    Re. 7d: I think it hinges on what one takes as the definition. If one takes 'colophony' as the definition, then (IMO) the wordplay becomes meaningless because there is no starting point for the interchange between e and o: in what word is one supposed to be interchanging them? The only other option for the definition is 'this' - and that, then, can only be RESIN.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kishore11 August 2015 at 10:00

      Exactly what I said at 9.19. Thanks for seeing it that way.

      Delete
    2. Bhalchandra Pasupathy11 August 2015 at 11:17

      Agree. I think there is also the added weightage that 'this' in clueing is the usual convention to substitute the word in the grid. Bit of confusion though, since resin is also an 'equivalent' meaning

      Delete
  15. Chaturvasi11 August 2015 at 10:17

    Off topic
    In a scene in the movie I am watching, the temple priest comes with the thattu of vibudhi and kungumam after the archanai. The heroine extends her hand and dips it in the bowl and takes some kungumam. Is this a done thing?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. D.Srinivasan11 August 2015 at 10:41

      In my opinion ........NO.

      The priest has to give the Kumkumam and Vibhoothi after ARCHANAI.

      If a plate of Kumkumam/Vibhothi is kept on a Table, the devotee can take by himself

      Delete
  16. Chaturvasi11 August 2015 at 10:21

    I as a setter/clue-writer do remember that on occasions I too have started with a word and tried to point to the required word by making changes in the word with which we started.
    But I felt that the clue was not unambiguous I don't think I persisted with that wordplay.
    Do you have any example where this sort of WP works and works clearly?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Abhay11 August 2015 at 11:02

    Just spotted what you mentioned at 8:54, Kishore - so you have achieved a full deck of cards! :)

    Will no. 53 be a wild card, then, or a joker?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 11:39

    Incognito (52)

    ReplyDelete
  19. raju umamaheswar11 August 2015 at 11:49

    Hi ye=all ! I'm back in CBE and after a honeymoon period of six months in NY, the nightmare getting services restored and moving has taken up all my solving time-- i've cuttings backlogs of local issues and today, I decided to solve Incognito first before reading all those dismal shenanigans of mother and son .
    I saw all the brickbats for my Sunday special and am too late to respond as it will be of no avail. I depend upon my editors CV, DG and Kishore to tweak my clues as I mark my drafts to the triumvirates , being a novitiate in compiling. They have been kind enough to oblige . Thanks to them !

    My Larousse defines COLOPHONY as ROSIN and I've in the past faced such situations of RMDC type of answers ! Here for Incognito's comfort, I'll put my dime for ROSIN !

    As regards ambiguity in answers, cryptic crosswords should be absolutely unambiguous !

    With regards to classifying the clues as DD-CD anagrams etc, it should be a free for all as compiling with such constraints on mind will only drive one crazy ! As long as there is good wordplay and gridfill, one should enjoy what's offered. Solvers can be easy in their cosy space but a compiler has to bring in new challenges within the rules of the puzzle and hence given due credit.

    In today's crossie, INAMORATA made me feel romantic ! Thanks Kishore !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Deepak Gopinath11 August 2015 at 12:30

      Welcome back

      Delete
    2. Kishore11 August 2015 at 12:50

      Welcome back. "Here for Incognito's comfort, I'll put my dime for ROSIN !" Raju, your dime is standing on the edge ;)

      Delete
    3. raju umamaheswar11 August 2015 at 13:16

      What's in word? A ROSIN is as stinky as a RESIN !! So the dime can fall into the slot !

      Delete
    4. Kishore11 August 2015 at 13:29

      Next time you chance upon Sherlock, Raju, call him Shylock, or worse call Shakespeare Bacon or any other kind of meat ... :)

      Delete
  20. raju umamaheswar11 August 2015 at 17:46

    Why not Sheshappa Iyer?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Kishore11 August 2015 at 20:05

    Good night, all

    ReplyDelete

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