Monday, 3 July 2017

No 12049, Monday 03 Jul 2017, Incognito


ACROSS
8   Inter-town transfer of ruby (4) BURY* [DD] plus word play. Inter =BURY = Town also
9   Accept reel, gaffe and creel, for example (10) RECEPTACLE*
10 Not now! Return and get a dumpling! (6) WONTON {NOT}{NOW}<=
11 Carvings on hinges etc. manufactured without use of energy (8) ETCHINGS {HINGES+eTC}*
12 Amish PRO's funny, concise observation (8) APHORISM*
14 Formula to cook rice with a pinch of pepper and some egg (6) RECIPE {RICE}*}{Pe...r}{Egg}
16 Hit and run (4) DASH [DD]
17 Bails out Herb, say (5) BASIL* Why 'say'?
18 Lies about garlands (4) LEIS*
19 Offer nurse to communist revolutionary after 10 (6) TENDER {TEN}{RED<=} [DD] plus word play Offer = TENDER = Nurse
21 Cap distilled murky ale (8) YARMULKE*
23 Gypsy loses tail and returns girl's telescope (8) SPYGLASS {GYPSy<=}{LASS}
26 Chuckle, chuckle! First letter scraps hotel uniform (6) CACKLE C(-h-u+a}ACKLE
27 Understand idiot consumed ... consumed Indian mother in law initially (10) ASSIMILATE {ASS}{I}{MIL}{ATE}
28 Not odd, like this number (4) EVEN [DD]

DOWN
1   Damaged pool faucet's not in its location (3,2,5) OUT OF PLACE*
2   Canine's optical organ as well as tail hurt at first (8) EYETOOTH {EYE}{TOO}{Tail}{Hurt}
3   Submariner dumps broken arms and moves to part of Borneo (6) BRUNEI sUBmarINER*
4   A revolutionary (Ernesto Guevara)'s pain (4) ACHE {A}{CHE}
5   A bit of spirit on the chest (not round) can be ghostly (8) SPECTRAL {Sp...t}{PECToRAL}
6   First killer returns without starting to negotiate after man becomes an insane person (6) MANIAC {MAn}{CAIN<=}
7   Go back after lawyer and get an online journal (4) BLOG {BL}{GO<=}
13 Maybe my sis is a small girl (5) MISSY*
15 Assassin after father at home gets an analgesic (10) PAINKILLER {PA}{IN}{KILLER}
17 Prohibit drinking place in charge becoming inhuman (8) BARBARIC {BAR}{BAR}{IC}
18 Laughed when girl left for North Carolina club and threw up (8) LAUNCHED LAU(-g+nc}NCHED Club is extraneous
20 Police officer's not out ... takes defensive position (4,2) DIGS IN {DIG'S} {IN}
22 Musician's chair's moving device (6) ROCKER [MD]
24 Mail clerk, for example (4) POST [DD]
25 Dance, hags, dance (4) SHAG*


GRID

61 comments:

  1. As expected- simple, neat & enjoyable. Could not parse cackle.
    Looking for something hidden behind Indian MIL, but could not find anything( except the first letters)
    Tender was really tender and nice.

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  2. I'm having a dialogue with Ramesh on WhatsApp regarding use of 'say' in 17A. What do others have to say about it?

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    Replies
    1. I feel even without 'say' it would have been perfect.

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  3. A bit too easy. Having done it, now I don't know what to do.As an old foggy I cannot resist the temptation to proffer some unsolicited advice. Make it a tad bit tougher.

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    Replies
    1. To make it tougher? No! Think about average solvers like me. This one is good. Enjoyed very much! 50 comments on this? Quite amazing!

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  4. The dialogue between RJ and Me
    Ramesh Jagannathan: Thanks for standing in for last 2 weeks
    17a herb say, to indicate that we have to look for an example of an herb and not a synonym

    Me: Bails out Herb, works just as well

    Me: With Herb being name of a person in wordplay

    Me: Surface reading I meant

    Ramesh Jagannathan: We have got so used to treating synonyms and examples as the same that we have stopped expecting setters to differentiate them. What Kishore has is right. Your clue is acceptable too.

    Ramesh Jagannathan: Herb is not equal to Basil, in the sense I cannot replace herb with Basil in a sentence and expect it not to change the meaning

    Ramesh Jagannathan: So 'herb say' is the correct definition , while herb alone can be acceptable

    Me: Why not? Can't we have
    I added a herb in the recipe
    I added Basil in the recioe

    Ramesh Jagannathan: Yes. But herb can stand for thyme too

    Me: It can be for any herb

    Ramesh Jagannathan: Essentially every Basil is an herb, but a herbs are not basil

    Ramesh Jagannathan: So correct definition is Herb say and not Herb
    Ramesh Jagannathan: A herbs= all herbs

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    Replies
    1. I say: I say, chaps!πŸ˜€

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    2. Our dialogue has knocked out your eyetooth!

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    3. I replied to Col. before seeing the dialogue. 'say' perhaps makes the clue more perfect!

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  5. 18d What is the role of 'club' in the clue? It works well even without it

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    Replies
    1. It is. C was supposed to come from club , but overlooked NC brought in a c too

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  6. "bails out herb" doesn't make sense. The setter uses "bails out Herb" with capital H to make us think it's a woman criminal. Then he adds 'say' to mean 'for example', at the same time thinking we would go off the beaten track looking for a homophone. So the setter is being devious, unnecessarily complicating what might have been a very simple clue. This, in Tamil, is 'kuttaiya kuzhapparathu" - muddying the pond.

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    Replies
    1. CV bails out Incognito.

      But why woman? Herb is a male name

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    2. Bails out Herb, could mean Bailing out Herb from police cuatody

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  7. My 8:51 was in draft stage before the Col-Ramesh chat appeared here.

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  8. I do know the male name used in PGW but I associated the botanical term with girls.

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  9. RJ and Col: Your chat discusses and comes to the right conclusion on the use of 'say' but doesn't touch on why, in that case, H is in caps.

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  10. I was not wrong. It seems Herb is also a girl's name
    http://www.babynameshub.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Herb

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  11. I did not know Herb could be a name in the first place- PGW or not. Learned something today- of course, anything could be an English name. We have had a cricketer by name Barber too! (Cook is the current captain)

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  12. Interesting discussion on herb. My take would be that say is required for making the def absolutely clear. Without say one may get the ans but with say probability of getting the ans increases.

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  13. Today's puzzle would inspire many to take up solving crosswords.
    Simple and enjoyable

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  14. The conversation between RJ & Col shows that Whats app can be utilized well instead of sharing inane jokes/vdos, etc.

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  15. No one noticed the Twin definitions plus word play in 8A and 19A

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    Replies
    1. Never knew bury meant town and hence wondered about its presence in the clue. Thanks to crosswords we keep learning! I did notice the twin definition and wp in 19A.

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    2. I was under the impression that 'Bury' would normally be part of a town's name like Canterbury etc.

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    3. Bury is a town in the UK. See the link in the main post

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    4. As you know, I always do. This was my earlier opinion. Thank you for correcting me.

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    5. Sir did notice but there were so many things to "say" that these took a backstage. I think these make the solving easier and would open a whole new world to beginners. Hats off to Incognito for using them & for you to specifically mention them.

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  16. Agree with CV, why use say when h is capital

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  17. 28A- Clue nos. are also becoming part of the clue. We had one like this recently- Three, if I remember correct.

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    Replies
    1. In this definition by example, is the clue number or the enum the example?

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    2. Enum being adjacent to 'this' is, imo, a better candidate than '28' at the other end

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    3. Though the question still remains :

      Can the clue number or enum be used as a part of the wp/definition

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    4. Yes it can. It has been done before by many setters

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    5. Clue number used as part of wordplay - I have seen it in UK crosswords and we too have done it. But enu being part of wp - I have not seen it so far but we can, I think.

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    6. Thanks, sir. My intention, as the Colonel correctly annotated, was to use the enum in wp

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  18. Replies
    1. Enum in 28A is (4) which is an even number

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    2. Thank you Col. I get stumped by these abbreviations. They strike when least expected. I never connected "this no." with enum- rather the clue no.28. When K is asking if it is right to use the clue no., how is this justified? Anyway in this clue "not odd" looks to be more positive.

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  19. There is no enum in 28A- just this no. So I took it as 28.

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    Replies
    1. Enum stands for enumeration, ie., the length of the answers shown at the end of the clue

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  20. thanks Kishore for the SHAG dance. Thanks , Deepak for the video. Made me to Dekko it Baar Baar !

    I agree with Vasant about the simplicity of Kishore's cluing. A boon and a spoonfeed for beginners.

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  21. Paddy
    You say "I get stumped..."
    Never play cricket!

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  22. Too late, anyway, to do that. That is why probably I chose tennis over cricket for playing.

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    Replies
    1. Double faulted then? Or foot faulted?

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  23. SimBle puzzle. Could finish during the bus journey from CMBT to Velacheri!

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  24. i never knew there are such nuances in the use of 'say' in Xwords clue !

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    Replies
    1. You may not be alone! But what has transpired is an interesting and enlightening discussion. Which is why this blog is so useful and worth visiting.

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  25. Replies
    1. Yes, I am reaching for Goodknight!

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    2. So many mosquitoes in ChennaiπŸ˜€πŸ˜€πŸ˜€πŸ˜€πŸ˜€

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